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Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant?

From olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant?
Date 2024-07-05 07:08 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <v68nob$39dkv$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (11 earlier) <v62vdb$23k3e$1@dont-email.me> <v63iqn$26loi$2@dont-email.me> <v65fg3$2l9eg$1@dont-email.me> <v6655d$2oun1$2@dont-email.me> <v686rp$36kvf$1@dont-email.me>

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On 7/5/2024 2:20 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-07-04 12:39:09 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 7/4/2024 1:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-07-03 13:13:59 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 7/3/2024 2:42 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-07-03 01:18:52 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/2/24 7:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 5:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/24 3:46 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 2:17 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 21:00 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 1:42 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 14:22 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 3:22 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 03:25 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Infinite_Recursion();
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(Infinite_Loop);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(Infinite_Recursion);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when HHH emulates the machine language of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Loop,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion, and DDD that it must abort these 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that itself can terminate normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whether or not it *must* abort is not very relevant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This <is> the problem that I am willing to discuss.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am unwilling to discuss any other problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This does meet the Sipser approved criteria.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      stop running unless aborted then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Repeating the same thing that has already been proved to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant does not bring the discussion any further.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sipser is not relevant, because that is about a correct 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation. Your simulation is not correct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you disagree with this you are either dishonest
>>>>>>>>>>>> or clueless I no longer care which one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d               pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3               ret
>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by HHH which calls an
>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process until aborted.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> HHH repeats the process twice and aborts too soon.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are freaking thinking too damn narrow minded.
>>>>>>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by any HHH that can exist
>>>>>>>>>> which calls this emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process
>>>>>>>>>> until aborted (which may be never).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Only if your definiton of "Correct" includes things that are 
>>>>>>>>> not correct.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your problem is you just assume things to exist that don't, 
>>>>>>>>> because you don't understand what Truth actually means.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, where is that Diagonalization proof you said you had to show 
>>>>>>> Godel wrong?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or are you just admitting you LIED about that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>>>>>>>>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>>>>>>>>      stop running unless aborted then
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>>>>>>>>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>>>>>>>> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Professor Sipser would agree that HHH/DDD meets the above 
>>>>>>>> criteria*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your HHH that returns an answer does NOT "Correctly Simulate" its 
>>>>>>> input by the definition of producing the exact results of 
>>>>>>> executing the machine represented by it,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can see what you fail to understand. Professor Sipser would
>>>>>> not make this same mistake.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Professor Sipser probably does understand the x86 language.
>>>>>
>>>>> What makes you think so? How can you justify "probably" instead of, 
>>>>> say,
>>>>> "pssobly"?
>>>>>
>>>>> The following contains nothing relevant:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Shared-memory implementation of the Karp-Sipser
>>>>>> kernelization process
>>>>>> https://inria.hal.science/hal-03404798/file/hipc2021.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you make sure to not pay attention than you you
>>>> won't find anything relevant. I searched for ["sipser" "x86"]
>>>
>>> Finding that you present claims without support is relevant enough 
>>> for me.
>>>
>>
>> Knowledge of the x86 language is 100% complete support.
> 
> No, it is not. It might support your cliams a but if your writing would
> reveal significant knowledge of the x86 language but it doesn't.
> 

_DDD()
[00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
[0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002182] 5d         pop ebp
[00002183] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

*In other words you are denying the verified fact*
That when DDD emulated by HHH according to the
semantics of the x86 language calls HHH(DDD) that
this call cannot possibly return.

*By denying this verified fact you are affirming*
That when DDD emulated by HHH according to the
semantics of the x86 language calls HHH(DDD) that
*THIS CALL CAN RETURN*

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-01 20:25 -0500
  Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-01 21:51 -0400
    Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-01 21:09 -0500
      Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-01 22:35 -0400
        Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-01 21:52 -0500
          Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-01 23:09 -0400
            Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-01 22:31 -0500
              Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 07:30 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 07:26 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 18:44 -0400
  Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-02 09:23 +0300
    Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 07:20 -0500
      Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-03 10:27 +0300
        Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 08:11 -0500
          Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-04 09:09 +0300
  Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-02 10:22 +0200
    Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 07:22 -0500
      Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-02 20:42 +0200
        Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 14:00 -0500
          Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-02 21:17 +0200
            Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 14:46 -0500
              Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 18:44 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 18:03 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 21:07 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 20:18 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 21:25 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 20:32 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 21:51 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 21:03 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 22:35 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 22:07 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 23:23 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 22:43 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 07:44 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 08:27 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 14:16 +0000
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 09:29 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 17:40 +0200
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 10:51 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 18:04 +0200
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 11:09 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-03 16:18 +0000
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 11:24 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 20:01 +0200
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 13:04 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 20:20 +0200
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 13:21 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 20:41 +0200
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 13:23 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-04 09:21 +0300
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 19:18 -0400
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 19:58 +0200
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 10:20 +0000
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:48 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 13:36 +0000
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:25 -0400
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-05 10:07 +0300
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 19:18 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 19:18 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-04 09:15 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:37 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:24 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-05 10:16 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-05 11:06 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-06 09:20 +0300
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 04:09 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 10:33 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 08:22 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 17:44 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 10:53 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 18:05 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 11:11 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 20:04 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 11:14 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 20:08 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 19:18 -0400
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 04:05 +0000
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 23:14 -0500
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 07:44 -0400
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 08:29 -0500
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 14:36 +0000
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 09:43 -0500
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 19:18 -0400
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 14:41 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-03 10:42 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 08:13 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-04 09:29 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:39 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:24 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-05 10:20 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-05 07:08 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-05 11:11 -0400
              Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 03:50 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 22:55 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 10:42 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 08:24 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 17:52 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 10:55 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 18:09 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 11:21 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 19:56 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 10:38 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:50 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 13:38 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 08:43 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 15:07 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 10:56 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 12:07 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 16:22 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 11:24 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 16:32 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 11:39 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 12:57 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 12:33 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 13:47 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-05 10:32 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-05 07:15 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-05 11:13 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:24 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 11:05 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 12:16 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 16:27 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:24 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 11:09 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:53 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 13:09 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 08:32 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 15:03 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 10:58 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 16:24 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 11:29 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 16:34 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 11:45 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 12:50 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 14:11 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 09:19 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Yes to both for Peter Olcott Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 19:18 -0400
                Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 19:40 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 21:17 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 20:26 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 21:47 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 21:05 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? For Olcott: YES to both. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 22:34 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 21:41 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 23:05 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 22:21 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-04 09:52 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:43 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-04 21:32 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:25 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-04 09:42 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:41 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:24 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-05 10:27 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-05 07:10 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-05 11:15 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 10:13 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:45 -0500
  Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-02 11:32 +0000
    Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 07:23 -0500
      Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-02 14:48 +0000
        Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 09:54 -0500

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