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Groups > comp.theory > #108457

Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant?

From Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant?
Date 2024-07-05 11:11 -0400
Organization i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID <acc0b947e7a62891addb2f5507f93fc6b341f911@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References (12 earlier) <v63iqn$26loi$2@dont-email.me> <v65fg3$2l9eg$1@dont-email.me> <v6655d$2oun1$2@dont-email.me> <v686rp$36kvf$1@dont-email.me> <v68nob$39dkv$1@dont-email.me>

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On 7/5/24 8:08 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 7/5/2024 2:20 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-07-04 12:39:09 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 7/4/2024 1:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-07-03 13:13:59 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/3/2024 2:42 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-07-03 01:18:52 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/2/24 7:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 5:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/24 3:46 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 2:17 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 21:00 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 1:42 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 14:22 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 3:22 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 03:25 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Infinite_Recursion();
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(Infinite_Loop);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(Infinite_Recursion);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when HHH emulates the machine language of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Loop,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion, and DDD that it must abort these 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that itself can terminate normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whether or not it *must* abort is not very relevant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This <is> the problem that I am willing to discuss.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am unwilling to discuss any other problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This does meet the Sipser approved criteria.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      stop running unless aborted then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> words 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Repeating the same thing that has already been proved to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be irrelevant does not bring the discussion any further.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sipser is not relevant, because that is about a correct 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation. Your simulation is not correct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you disagree with this you are either dishonest
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or clueless I no longer care which one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d               pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3               ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by HHH which calls an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process until aborted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH repeats the process twice and aborts too soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are freaking thinking too damn narrow minded.
>>>>>>>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by any HHH that can exist
>>>>>>>>>>> which calls this emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process
>>>>>>>>>>> until aborted (which may be never).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Only if your definiton of "Correct" includes things that are 
>>>>>>>>>> not correct.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your problem is you just assume things to exist that don't, 
>>>>>>>>>> because you don't understand what Truth actually means.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, where is that Diagonalization proof you said you had to show 
>>>>>>>> Godel wrong?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or are you just admitting you LIED about that?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>>>>>>>>>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>>>>>>>>>      stop running unless aborted then
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>>>>>>>>>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>>>>>>>>> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Professor Sipser would agree that HHH/DDD meets the above 
>>>>>>>>> criteria*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your HHH that returns an answer does NOT "Correctly Simulate" 
>>>>>>>> its input by the definition of producing the exact results of 
>>>>>>>> executing the machine represented by it,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can see what you fail to understand. Professor Sipser would
>>>>>>> not make this same mistake.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Professor Sipser probably does understand the x86 language.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What makes you think so? How can you justify "probably" instead 
>>>>>> of, say,
>>>>>> "pssobly"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The following contains nothing relevant:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Shared-memory implementation of the Karp-Sipser
>>>>>>> kernelization process
>>>>>>> https://inria.hal.science/hal-03404798/file/hipc2021.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you make sure to not pay attention than you you
>>>>> won't find anything relevant. I searched for ["sipser" "x86"]
>>>>
>>>> Finding that you present claims without support is relevant enough 
>>>> for me.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Knowledge of the x86 language is 100% complete support.
>>
>> No, it is not. It might support your cliams a but if your writing would
>> reveal significant knowledge of the x86 language but it doesn't.
>>
> 
> _DDD()
> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
> [00002183] c3         ret
> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
> 
> *In other words you are denying the verified fact*
> That when DDD emulated by HHH according to the
> semantics of the x86 language calls HHH(DDD) that
> this call cannot possibly return.

But your HHH doesn't DO that, since you say it aborts its emulation and 
returns 0.

aborting the emulation is deviating from the full semantics of the x86 
instruciton set.

> 
> *By denying this verified fact you are affirming*
> That when DDD emulated by HHH according to the
> semantics of the x86 language calls HHH(DDD) that
> *THIS CALL CAN RETURN*
> 

it can. if HHH ever aborts its emulation and returns.

So, which lie are you holding to.

That you HHH is a emulatng Halt Decider that returns an answer for this 
input.

Or that HHH is a completely correct emulator of its input, as you imply 
by the claim that DDD can not return.

You are caught with your hand in the cookie jar and trying to use double 
speak to get out of it.

YOU ARE JUST A LIAR.

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Thread

Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-01 20:25 -0500
  Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-01 21:51 -0400
    Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-01 21:09 -0500
      Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-01 22:35 -0400
        Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-01 21:52 -0500
          Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-01 23:09 -0400
            Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-01 22:31 -0500
              Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 07:30 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 07:26 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 18:44 -0400
  Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-02 09:23 +0300
    Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 07:20 -0500
      Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-03 10:27 +0300
        Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 08:11 -0500
          Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-04 09:09 +0300
  Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-02 10:22 +0200
    Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 07:22 -0500
      Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-02 20:42 +0200
        Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 14:00 -0500
          Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-02 21:17 +0200
            Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 14:46 -0500
              Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 18:44 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 18:03 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 21:07 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 20:18 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 21:25 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 20:32 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 21:51 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 21:03 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 22:35 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 22:07 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-02 23:23 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 22:43 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 07:44 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 08:27 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 14:16 +0000
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 09:29 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 17:40 +0200
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 10:51 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 18:04 +0200
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 11:09 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-03 16:18 +0000
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 11:24 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 20:01 +0200
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 13:04 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 20:20 +0200
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 13:21 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 20:41 +0200
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 13:23 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-04 09:21 +0300
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 19:18 -0400
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant --- AKA is Fred a Liar ? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 19:58 +0200
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 10:20 +0000
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:48 -0500
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 13:36 +0000
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:25 -0400
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-05 10:07 +0300
                Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 19:18 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 19:18 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-04 09:15 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:37 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:24 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-05 10:16 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-05 11:06 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-06 09:20 +0300
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 04:09 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 10:33 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 08:22 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 17:44 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 10:53 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 18:05 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 11:11 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 20:04 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 11:14 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Richard seems to be willfully ignorant "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 20:08 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? --- Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 19:18 -0400
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 04:05 +0000
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 23:14 -0500
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 07:44 -0400
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 08:29 -0500
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 14:36 +0000
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 09:43 -0500
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 19:18 -0400
                Re: olcott seems to be willfully ignorant joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 14:41 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-03 10:42 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 08:13 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-04 09:29 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:39 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:24 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-05 10:20 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-05 07:08 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-05 11:11 -0400
              Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 03:50 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 22:55 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 10:42 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 08:24 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 17:52 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 10:55 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 18:09 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 11:21 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-03 19:56 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 10:38 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:50 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 13:38 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 08:43 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 15:07 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 10:56 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 12:07 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 16:22 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 11:24 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 16:32 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 11:39 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 12:57 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 12:33 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 13:47 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-05 10:32 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-05 07:15 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-05 11:13 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:24 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 11:05 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 12:16 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 16:27 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:24 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 11:09 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:53 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 13:09 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 08:32 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 15:03 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 10:58 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 16:24 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 11:29 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 16:34 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 11:45 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 12:50 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-03 14:11 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 09:19 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Yes to both for Peter Olcott Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 19:18 -0400
                Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 19:40 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 21:17 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 20:26 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 21:47 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 21:05 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? For Olcott: YES to both. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 22:34 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 21:41 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-03 23:05 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 22:21 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-04 09:52 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:43 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-04 21:32 +0200
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Liar ??? Maybe... Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:25 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-04 09:42 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:41 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-04 11:24 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-05 10:27 +0300
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-05 07:10 -0500
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Can ADD be this severe? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-05 11:15 -0400
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-04 10:13 +0000
                Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 07:45 -0500
  Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-02 11:32 +0000
    Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 07:23 -0500
      Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-02 14:48 +0000
        Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 09:54 -0500

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