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Groups > comp.theory > #107470

Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies

From Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups comp.theory, sci.logic
Subject Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies
Date 2024-06-19 21:39 -0400
Organization i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID <v5019d$ggem$6@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References (14 earlier) <v4scfo$1eb2f$1@dont-email.me> <v4u3mr$1rrod$2@dont-email.me> <v4ukq9$1vpm0$2@dont-email.me> <v4vsqt$ggem$1@i2pn2.org> <v4vu1e$27o1c$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 6/19/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/19/2024 7:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/19/24 9:00 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/19/2024 3:08 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>> Op 18.jun.2024 om 18:26 schreef olcott:
>>>>> On 6/18/2024 10:47 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>> Op 18.jun.2024 om 17:33 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>> On 6/18/2024 10:20 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is a verified fact that serious C people have recently
>>>>>>> agreed to the following verbatim statement in the C group.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cv4pg5p%24morv%241%40raubtier-asyl.eternal-september.org%3E+
>>>>>
>>>>>>> You either lack this degree of skill in C or are only
>>>>>>> interested in playing head games.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have seen the response. It was most certainly not a serious reply.
>>>>>> But you know apparently to little of C to understand that.
>>>>>> Probably, because you are unable to escape from rebuttal mode, 
>>>>>> even if the truth is obvious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have known C since K&R was the standard and met
>>>>> Bjarne Stroustrup when he came to our university
>>>>> to promote his new C++ programming language.
>>>>>
>>>>> *You seem to be willfully ignorant*
>>>>>
>>>>>> It was your own proof that showed that in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         int main()
>>>>>>         {
>>>>>>           return H(main);
>>>>>>         }
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> main halts, whereas H reported non-halting. So, it you were honest 
>>>>>> you would stop claiming that H is correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is merely a more difficult to understand version of this
>>>>> same pathological relationship.
>>>>>
>>>>> int main()
>>>>> {
>>>>>    Output("Input_Halts = ", HH0(main));
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> _main()
>>>>> [000020c2] 55         push ebp
>>>>> [000020c3] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>>>> [000020c5] 68c2200000 push 000020c2 ; push main
>>>>> [000020ca] e833f4ffff call 00001502 ; call HH0
>>>>> [000020cf] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>> [000020d2] 50         push eax
>>>>> [000020d3] 6843070000 push 00000743
>>>>> [000020d8] e885e6ffff call 00000762
>>>>> [000020dd] 83c408     add esp,+08
>>>>> [000020e0] eb04       jmp 000020e6
>>>>> [000020e2] 33c0       xor eax,eax
>>>>> [000020e4] eb02       jmp 000020e8
>>>>> [000020e6] 33c0       xor eax,eax
>>>>> [000020e8] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>> [000020e9] c3         ret
>>>>> Size in bytes:(0040) [000020e9]
>>>>>
>>>>>   machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
>>>>>   address   address   data      code       language
>>>>>   ========  ========  ========  =========  =============
>>>>> [000020c2][001036c3][00000000] 55         push ebp
>>>>> [000020c3][001036c3][00000000] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>>>> [000020c5][001036bf][000020c2] 68c2200000 push 000020c2 ; push main
>>>>> [000020ca][001036bb][000020cf] e833f4ffff call 00001502 ; call HH0
>>>>> New slave_stack at:103767
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:11376f
>>>>> [000020c2][0011375f][00113763] 55         push ebp      ; begin main
>>>>> [000020c3][0011375f][00113763] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>>>> [000020c5][0011375b][000020c2] 68c2200000 push 000020c2 ; push main
>>>>> [000020ca][00113757][000020cf] e833f4ffff call 00001502 ; call HH0
>>>>> New slave_stack at:14e18f
>>>>> [000020c2][0015e187][0015e18b] 55         push ebp      ; begin main
>>>>> [000020c3][0015e187][0015e18b] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>>>> [000020c5][0015e183][000020c2] 68c2200000 push 000020c2 ; push main
>>>>> [000020ca][0015e17f][000020cf] e833f4ffff call 00001502 ; call HH0
>>>>> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
>>>>>
>>>>> [000020cf][001036c3][00000000] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>> [000020d2][001036bf][00000000] 50         push eax
>>>>> [000020d3][001036bb][00000743] 6843070000 push 00000743
>>>>> [000020d8][001036bb][00000743] e885e6ffff call 00000762
>>>>> Input_Halts = 0
>>>>> [000020dd][001036c3][00000000] 83c408     add esp,+08
>>>>> [000020e0][001036c3][00000000] eb04       jmp 000020e6
>>>>> [000020e6][001036c3][00000000] 33c0       xor eax,eax
>>>>> [000020e8][001036c7][00000018] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>> [000020e9][001036cb][00000000] c3         ret           ; exit main
>>>>> Number of Instructions Executed(10070) == 150 Pages
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is easier to understand because a print statement was added.
>>>> You proved that it halts, but H0 reports non-halting.
>>>> So, it produces a false negative.
>>>> So, now it has been proved that H, H0, etc produce false negatives, 
>>>> when used to determine halting behaviour, please, stop to call them 
>>>> halt-deciders, or termination-deciders.
>>>> They might be "simulation deciders". When returning true, the 
>>>> simulation was correct, when false, the full simulation was not 
>>>> possible.
>>>
>>> I don't want to discuss your screwy example because I
>>> can't use screwy examples in my paper.
>>>
>>> void DDD()
>>> {
>>>    H0(DDD);
>>> }
>>>
>>> _DDD()
>>> [000020a2] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>> [000020a3] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>> [000020a5] 68a2200000 push 000020a2 ; push DDD
>>> [000020aa] e8f3f9ffff call 00001aa2 ; call H0
>>> [000020af] 83c404     add esp,+04   ; housekeeping
>>> [000020b2] 5d         pop ebp       ; housekeeping
>>> [000020b3] c3         ret           ; never gets here
>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [000020b3]
>>>
>>> Exactly which step of DDD emulated by H0 was emulated
>>> incorrectly such that this emulation would be complete?
>>> AKA DDD emulated by H0 reaches machine address [000020b3]
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Why does H0 NEED to be able to correctly simulate its input?
>>
> 
> Decider must compute the mapping from their finite string
> input to the actual behavior that this finite string specifies.
> They are not free to imagine the behavior that the authors of
> textbooks expect.

AND THE DEFINITION OF THAT BEHAVIOR IS THE BEHAVIOR OF THE DIRECT 
EXECUTION OF THE PROGRAM THE INPUT REPRESENTS.

Yes, the DO need to follow the behavior that the author of the problem 
defined.

You are just showing you think it is ok to not follow the REQURIEMENTS 
and just LIE about what you are doing.

> 
>> Your question is just a Strawman, replacing the OBJECTIVE criteria of 
>> the behavior of the machine represented by the input (which inlcudes 
>> the code for H0) with the SUBJECTIVE question of what H0 thinks about it.
>>
>> And, your H0 doesn't correctly simulate the input, as the *ONLY* 
>> correct simulation of that input would be:
>>
>> simulate the push ebp
>> simulate the mov ebp,esp
>> simulate the push 000020a2
>> simulate the call 00001aa2
>> simulate the instruction at 00001aa2
>>
> 
> I now have a 195 page color-coded execution trace
> showing HH0 correctly simulating DDD calling
> a simulated HH0 simulating another instance of DDD.
> https://liarparadox.org/HH0_(DDD)_Full_Trace.pdf

I'll look into it in more details later, but this is what comes from a 
quick look.

The first thing I note, is just like that last one, the TRACE doesn't 
start until page 36, so is not as long as you claim. It is nice that you 
include the x86 assembly of the program. But it also shows that 
something isn't as it seems as there are a lot of functions like:

_OutputString()
[00000743] 55		push ebp
[00000744] 8bec		move ebp, esp
[00000746] 5d		pop. ebp
[00000747] c3		ret
Size in bytes:(0005) [00000747]

Which your tracing seems to ignore, and the seem to end up doing 
something not shown, so clearly, there is activity not being traced and 
being hidden. This could be called a LIE.


Also, something is funny about the formatting of the text of the PDF, 
like it is edited and reformatted as it doesn't copy and paste well.

First, again, the simulation starts as:
[000020b3][00103680][00000000] 55.         push. ebp
[000020b4][00103680][00000000] 8bec.       mov ebp, esp
[000020b6][0010367c][00002093] 6893200000  push 00002093

and the code at 20b3 is the code of main, not DDD, so again, this is the 
wrong trace. The trace from H0, will start at the instructions of DDD, 
at address 00002093

So, this is NOT the trace of HH0(DDD,DDD)

Did you confuse me with someone else you were arguing about and forgot 
what the actual problem was.


Then on page 37, we see:

[000012d1][00103620][000003db] e87df4ffff  call 00000753
New slave_stack at:103724
[000012d6][00103628][00103674] 83c408      add esp,+08


So, again, your trace isn't actually a correct x86 trace of the actual 
code being executed. And these functions at these addresses seem to be 
something "magic" as the code shown doesn't match the names given.

SO, it seems something may be rotten in Denmark here.

Then we have on page 43: (spaces and comments added)

[000011dc][00103604][001036ac] 52.         push edx
[000011dd][00103604][001036ac] e8b1f5ffff  call 00000793

[0000209b][00113714][000020a0] e853f4ffff  call 000014f3

The above is NOT a correct simulation of the code that is currently 
being simulated by the top level decider, then it gets back to its 
proper trace.

[000011e2][00103610][0011372c] 83c40c      add esp,+0c

If this is showing a simulation at a different level, it really should 
be more clearly indicated

> 
>> since that isn't what you have ever shown as the simulation by H0, you 
>> have lost the right to call its simulation "correct".
>>
>> Sorry, your argument is just a lie.
> 
> *It never has been a falsehood*
> 

It has ALWAYS been. You just don't seem to know the meaning of  truth.


Look, you repeated the exact same error, even though you apparently did 
look at the document to add color coding. (or had a program do it).


It is clear you don't understand about what a correct simulation trace 
of your decider simulating the input DDD,DDD

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Thread

Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 22:33 -0500
  Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-17 10:31 +0200
    Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 07:20 -0500
      Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-17 15:30 +0200
        Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 08:47 -0500
          Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-17 16:18 +0200
            Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 09:34 -0500
              Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-17 16:49 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 10:56 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-18 09:57 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 07:38 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-18 14:42 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 08:34 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-18 17:20 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 10:33 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-18 17:47 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:26 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-18 18:28 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:34 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 10:08 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:00 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 15:56 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 10:01 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 17:47 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 11:08 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-20 10:17 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:23 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 19:44 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 21:39 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 21:02 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 22:17 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 21:25 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 07:33 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 09:58 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 22:48 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 17:52 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 23:05 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 18:09 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 21:29 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 22:43 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:17 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 00:22 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 07:33 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 17:54 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 10:06 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-18 17:56 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:29 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
      Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 18:42 -0400
        Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 20:16 -0500
          Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 21:24 -0400
            Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 21:04 -0500
              Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 22:33 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 21:36 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 22:44 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 22:01 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 23:15 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 22:28 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 07:36 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 08:21 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-18 17:06 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 12:25 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-18 17:57 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 13:16 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-18 20:37 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 16:29 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 08:48 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- test of dishonesty olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:12 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 16:08 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-18 21:36 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 16:54 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-19 09:29 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 09:05 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:51 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- The only reply until addressed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:52 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- addressed joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 18:03 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- --- the only reply until FULLY addressed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 13:26 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- --- the only reply until FULLY addressed joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 16:33 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:29 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 00:40 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 18:08 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 10:23 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-21 10:11 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 08:19 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:06 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-22 11:05 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 08:04 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 09:27 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 09:11 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 10:20 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 09:42 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 11:08 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-22 14:53 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-23 10:57 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 08:13 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-24 10:22 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 08:46 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-24 19:52 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-24 20:27 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 16:10 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:48 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-25 08:48 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-25 14:14 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-25 12:27 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-25 14:06 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 16:12 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:53 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:44 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 21:30 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:41 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 21:51 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 09:08 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:31 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:43 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- the only reply until addressed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:48 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- the only reply until addressed joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:59 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 07:30 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 09:23 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 16:43 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:09 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:24 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:16 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:32 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:40 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:24 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:24 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 08:57 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:20 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 16:25 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:24 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 10:18 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:11 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 16:11 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 10:07 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 17:50 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 11:10 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-20 10:23 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 09:16 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 16:29 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 11:35 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-21 09:58 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 08:12 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:11 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 22:54 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:43 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 09:45 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-21 10:02 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 08:18 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:20 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-22 11:14 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-18 13:52 +0200
  Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 19:21 +0300
    Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:30 -0500
      Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 19:37 +0300
        Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:45 -0500
          Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-19 12:30 +0300
            Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:47 -0500
              Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:45 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies --- The only reply until addressed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:49 -0500
              Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:53 +0300
      Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400

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