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Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies

From Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups comp.theory, sci.logic
Subject Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies
Date 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
Organization i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID <v52mid$jund$2@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References (20 earlier) <v502jc$2ccjk$1@dont-email.me> <v503fg$ggen$1@i2pn2.org> <v503ur$2ccjk$2@dont-email.me> <v5142v$hpdb$1@i2pn2.org> <v51g33$2kbbe$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 6/20/24 10:58 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/20/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/19/24 10:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/19/2024 9:17 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/19/24 10:02 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/19/2024 8:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/19/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/19/2024 7:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/19/24 9:00 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/19/2024 3:08 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Op 18.jun.2024 om 18:26 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/18/2024 10:47 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 18.jun.2024 om 17:33 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/18/2024 10:20 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a verified fact that serious C people have recently
>>>>>>>>>>>>> agreed to the following verbatim statement in the C group.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cv4pg5p%24morv%241%40raubtier-asyl.eternal-september.org%3E+
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You either lack this degree of skill in C or are only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested in playing head games.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have seen the response. It was most certainly not a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> serious reply.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But you know apparently to little of C to understand that.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably, because you are unable to escape from rebuttal 
>>>>>>>>>>>> mode, even if the truth is obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have known C since K&R was the standard and met
>>>>>>>>>>> Bjarne Stroustrup when he came to our university
>>>>>>>>>>> to promote his new C++ programming language.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *You seem to be willfully ignorant*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It was your own proof that showed that in
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>         int main()
>>>>>>>>>>>>         {
>>>>>>>>>>>>           return H(main);
>>>>>>>>>>>>         }
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> main halts, whereas H reported non-halting. So, it you were 
>>>>>>>>>>>> honest you would stop claiming that H is correct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That is merely a more difficult to understand version of this
>>>>>>>>>>> same pathological relationship.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>    Output("Input_Halts = ", HH0(main));
>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _main()
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020c2] 55         push ebp
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020c3] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020c5] 68c2200000 push 000020c2 ; push main
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020ca] e833f4ffff call 00001502 ; call HH0
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020cf] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020d2] 50         push eax
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020d3] 6843070000 push 00000743
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020d8] e885e6ffff call 00000762
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020dd] 83c408     add esp,+08
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020e0] eb04       jmp 000020e6
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020e2] 33c0       xor eax,eax
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020e4] eb02       jmp 000020e8
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020e6] 33c0       xor eax,eax
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020e8] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020e9] c3         ret
>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0040) [000020e9]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
>>>>>>>>>>>   address   address   data      code       language
>>>>>>>>>>>   ========  ========  ========  =========  =============
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020c2][001036c3][00000000] 55         push ebp
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020c3][001036c3][00000000] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020c5][001036bf][000020c2] 68c2200000 push 000020c2 ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> push main
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020ca][001036bb][000020cf] e833f4ffff call 00001502 ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> call HH0
>>>>>>>>>>> New slave_stack at:103767
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored 
>>>>>>>>>>> at:11376f
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020c2][0011375f][00113763] 55         push ebp      ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> begin main
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020c3][0011375f][00113763] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020c5][0011375b][000020c2] 68c2200000 push 000020c2 ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> push main
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020ca][00113757][000020cf] e833f4ffff call 00001502 ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> call HH0
>>>>>>>>>>> New slave_stack at:14e18f
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020c2][0015e187][0015e18b] 55         push ebp      ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> begin main
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020c3][0015e187][0015e18b] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020c5][0015e183][000020c2] 68c2200000 push 000020c2 ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> push main
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020ca][0015e17f][000020cf] e833f4ffff call 00001502 ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> call HH0
>>>>>>>>>>> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation 
>>>>>>>>>>> Stopped
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020cf][001036c3][00000000] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020d2][001036bf][00000000] 50         push eax
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020d3][001036bb][00000743] 6843070000 push 00000743
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020d8][001036bb][00000743] e885e6ffff call 00000762
>>>>>>>>>>> Input_Halts = 0
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020dd][001036c3][00000000] 83c408     add esp,+08
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020e0][001036c3][00000000] eb04       jmp 000020e6
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020e6][001036c3][00000000] 33c0       xor eax,eax
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020e8][001036c7][00000018] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>> [000020e9][001036cb][00000000] c3         ret           ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> exit main
>>>>>>>>>>> Number of Instructions Executed(10070) == 150 Pages
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is easier to understand because a print statement was added.
>>>>>>>>>> You proved that it halts, but H0 reports non-halting.
>>>>>>>>>> So, it produces a false negative.
>>>>>>>>>> So, now it has been proved that H, H0, etc produce false 
>>>>>>>>>> negatives, when used to determine halting behaviour, please, 
>>>>>>>>>> stop to call them halt-deciders, or termination-deciders.
>>>>>>>>>> They might be "simulation deciders". When returning true, the 
>>>>>>>>>> simulation was correct, when false, the full simulation was 
>>>>>>>>>> not possible.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't want to discuss your screwy example because I
>>>>>>>>> can't use screwy examples in my paper.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>    H0(DDD);
>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>> [000020a2] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>> [000020a3] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>> [000020a5] 68a2200000 push 000020a2 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>> [000020aa] e8f3f9ffff call 00001aa2 ; call H0
>>>>>>>>> [000020af] 83c404     add esp,+04   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>> [000020b2] 5d         pop ebp       ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>> [000020b3] c3         ret           ; never gets here
>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [000020b3]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Exactly which step of DDD emulated by H0 was emulated
>>>>>>>>> incorrectly such that this emulation would be complete?
>>>>>>>>> AKA DDD emulated by H0 reaches machine address [000020b3]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why does H0 NEED to be able to correctly simulate its input?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Decider must compute the mapping from their finite string
>>>>>>> input to the actual behavior that this finite string specifies.
>>>>>>> They are not free to imagine the behavior that the authors of
>>>>>>> textbooks expect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AND THE DEFINITION OF THAT BEHAVIOR IS THE BEHAVIOR OF THE DIRECT 
>>>>>> EXECUTION OF THE PROGRAM THE INPUT REPRESENTS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, the DO need to follow the behavior that the author of the 
>>>>>> problem defined.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are just showing you think it is ok to not follow the 
>>>>>> REQURIEMENTS and just LIE about what you are doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The finite string input does not communicate the behavior
>>>>> that the textbook authors expect it to communicate.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The finite string certainly DOES communicate what is needed to 
>>>> determine the behavior, or it wasn't a correct representation.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There is no sequence of truth preserving operations from the finite
>>> string machine code of DDD that can correctly ignore the pathological
>>> relationship between H0 and DDD as an aspect of the behavior that
>>> this finite string specifies.
>>>
>>
>> Why does it need to "ignore" the relationship. We can in a finite 
>> number of operations show that the machine code of DDD (but we need 
>> ALL the machine code of DDD, including the functions it calls) show 
>> that DDD represents a Halting Program if the decider does what you 
>> claim, and returns 0 in a finite amount of time.
>>
> 
> _DDD()
> [00002093] 55               push ebp
> [00002094] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
> [00002096] 6893200000       push 00002093
> [0000209b] e853f4ffff       call 000014f3
> [000020a0] 83c404           add esp,+04
> [000020a3] 5d               pop ebp
> [000020a4] c3               ret
> Size in bytes:(0018) [000020a4]
> 
> We can see that H0 halts and you seem insufficiently technically
> competent or outright dishonest when you imply
> 
> that H0 cannot
> see that DDD correctly simulated by H0 cannot possibly get past
> its own [0000209b] machine address in a finite number of steps.

The fact that is can not see, doesn't make the halting of the input not 
happen.

Remember, "H0" is the name for *THIS* *EXACT* *MACHINE* because there 
can only be one C entity by the same name at global scope.

And DDD is *DEFINED* to be using *THIS* H0, since the x86 code for H0 
must be part of the x86 code for DDD, or you can't simulate more than 4 
instructions correctly.

Note, the question that H0 is SUPPOSED to be answering is does its input 
halt, or equivalently if an actually correct (and complete) simulation 
of this input will halt. Since H0 doesn't do that, its simulaton doesn't 
count.

Also, H0 can't prove that its simulation of the input *CAN'T* reach a 
final state, because of the fact that it *DOES* about at the point it 
does, so either you admit that it is just a trival fact that a machine 
that aborts its simulation has shown that it couldn't go farther (since 
it didn't) which makes your concept just a trivial decider, or you have 
to try to convince people that it is ok to look at the WRONG input, 
which is of course, just invalid logic.


> 
> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>    If simulating halt decider H *correctly simulates its input D*
>    *until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never*
>    *stop running unless aborted* then
> 
>    H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>    specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
> 
> 

Right, and that was with the DEFINITION that a "Correct Simulation" is a 
simulation that actualy DOES correctly repoduce the behavior of the 
input, something you claim youir doesn't' need to, and that definition 
means tha ta correct simulation doesn't ever stop until it gets to the 
end. Something your decider doesn't do, or even correctly predict the 
results of (since we can show, and you admit) that the direct execution 
of the input will halt (which is why you desperately are trying to prove 
that a correct simulation can be different that the actual behavior, 
which is just a contradiction of terms).

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Thread

Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 22:33 -0500
  Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-17 10:31 +0200
    Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 07:20 -0500
      Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-17 15:30 +0200
        Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 08:47 -0500
          Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-17 16:18 +0200
            Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 09:34 -0500
              Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-17 16:49 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 10:56 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-18 09:57 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 07:38 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-18 14:42 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 08:34 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-18 17:20 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 10:33 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-18 17:47 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:26 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-18 18:28 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:34 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 10:08 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:00 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 15:56 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 10:01 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 17:47 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 11:08 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-20 10:17 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:23 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 19:44 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 21:39 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 21:02 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 22:17 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 21:25 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 07:33 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 09:58 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 22:48 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 17:52 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 23:05 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 18:09 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 21:29 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 22:43 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:17 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 00:22 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 07:33 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 17:54 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 10:06 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-18 17:56 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:29 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
      Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 18:42 -0400
        Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 20:16 -0500
          Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 21:24 -0400
            Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 21:04 -0500
              Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 22:33 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 21:36 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 22:44 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 22:01 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 23:15 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 22:28 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 07:36 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 08:21 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-18 17:06 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 12:25 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-18 17:57 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 13:16 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-18 20:37 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 16:29 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 08:48 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- test of dishonesty olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:12 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 16:08 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-18 21:36 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 16:54 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-19 09:29 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 09:05 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:51 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- The only reply until addressed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:52 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- addressed joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 18:03 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- --- the only reply until FULLY addressed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 13:26 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- --- the only reply until FULLY addressed joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 16:33 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:29 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 00:40 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 18:08 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 10:23 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-21 10:11 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 08:19 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:06 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-22 11:05 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 08:04 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 09:27 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 09:11 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 10:20 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 09:42 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 11:08 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-22 14:53 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-23 10:57 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 08:13 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-24 10:22 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 08:46 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-24 19:52 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-24 20:27 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 16:10 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:48 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-25 08:48 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-25 14:14 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-25 12:27 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-25 14:06 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 16:12 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:53 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:44 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 21:30 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:41 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 21:51 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 09:08 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:31 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:43 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- the only reply until addressed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:48 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- the only reply until addressed joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:59 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 07:30 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 09:23 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 16:43 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:09 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:24 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:16 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:32 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:40 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:24 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:24 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 08:57 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:20 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 16:25 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:24 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 10:18 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:11 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 16:11 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 10:07 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 17:50 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 11:10 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-20 10:23 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 09:16 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 16:29 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 11:35 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-21 09:58 +0200
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 08:12 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:11 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 22:54 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:43 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 09:45 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-21 10:02 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 08:18 -0500
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:20 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-22 11:14 +0300
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-18 13:52 +0200
  Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 19:21 +0300
    Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:30 -0500
      Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 19:37 +0300
        Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:45 -0500
          Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-19 12:30 +0300
            Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:47 -0500
              Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:45 +0000
                Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies --- The only reply until addressed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:49 -0500
              Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:53 +0300
      Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400

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