Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

From	Luk Claes <luk.claes@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.project
Subject	Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee
Date	2017-10-31 18:20 +0100
Message-ID	<uGImK-4RN-9@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 5:46 PM, Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> wrote:

> >>>>> "Russ" == Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> writes:
>
>     Russ> Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> writes:
>     >> Russ Allbery - 28.10.17, 16:13:
>
>     >>> There wasn't *anything* "left out" of that discussion.
>
>     >> In my opinion this is a pretty bold statement.
>
>     >> If everyone has been heard, noticed, felt and valued, if
>     >> everything has been covered, then why are we discussing it… yet
>     >> again now?
>
>     Russ> Those are not equivalent statements.  In that sort of
>     Russ> discussion, it is literally impossible to make everyone feel
>     Russ> valued, since at least some people on each side will only feel
>     Russ> valued if their preferred option is chosen.  That's therefore
>     Russ> not a reasonable thing to attempt to achieve; we can try to
>     Russ> maximize the number of people who feel valued, but there are
>     Russ> usually at least some people involved in this large and
>     Russ> sprawling of a decision for whom "valued" is synonymous with
>     Russ> "agreed with."
>
> For myself, I've found that if I work with people I can often get to a
> point where they feel valued even when there is disagreement.
> As you point out that's not true for some people and it is difficult
> even when it is possible.
>
> I was not planning on discussing systemd again.
>
> I am discussing how we handle conflict because I hope we can do a better
> job of helping  people feel valued even when we do not agree with their
> technical positions.
> In the limit, I hope to do your literally impossible:-)
>
> Fortunately, I'd be thrilled and filled with joy to simply get closer to
> that limit.  Helping create a culture where we have mechanisms to help
> ourselves separate value from agreement, and where we value using those
> mechanisms would delight me.
> I think even that is a hard ask, but I do not think it is literally
> impossible.
>
> --Sam
>
>

Thread

Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2017-10-28 02:30 +0200
  Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2017-10-28 13:40 +0200
    Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-10-29 01:20 +0200
      Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2017-10-31 11:10 +0100
        Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-10-31 17:20 +0100
          Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2017-10-31 17:50 +0100
            Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the  Technical Committee Luk Claes <luk.claes@gmail.com> - 2017-10-31 18:20 +0100
          Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2017-10-31 18:40 +0100
            Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the  Technical Committee Marty <martyb@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-11-03 23:00 +0100
              Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2017-11-04 00:40 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the  Technical Committee Marty <martyb@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-11-07 02:20 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-11-07 04:00 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> - 2017-12-26 15:40 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2017-12-26 16:10 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-12-28 11:30 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2017-12-28 13:50 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2017-12-28 13:50 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the  Technical Committee Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-12-28 14:00 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2017-12-28 19:40 +0100
          Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-10-31 18:40 +0100
            Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2017-11-02 14:20 +0100
              Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-11-02 14:50 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-11-02 19:50 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2017-11-04 00:50 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2017-11-04 02:20 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2017-11-04 02:50 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-11-04 06:40 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> - 2017-11-05 17:10 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-11-04 05:20 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2017-11-03 14:10 +0100
    Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-10-29 05:30 +0100
  Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2017-10-29 00:00 +0200
    Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-10-29 01:30 +0200

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