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Groups > comp.lang.c > #149739

Re: Unicode in C Sources

From James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Unicode in C Sources
Date 2020-02-04 16:05 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <r1cma2$5vd$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <r19avh$7l4$1@gioia.aioe.org> <r19e0i$5nv$1@dont-email.me> <r19nnk$86a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <r1a1kg$54v$1@dont-email.me> <r1c3t4$174b$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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On 2/4/20 10:51 AM, Manfred wrote:
> On 2/3/2020 9:59 PM, James Kuyper wrote:
>> On 2/3/20 1:11 PM, Manfred wrote:
>>> On 2/3/2020 4:25 PM, James Kuyper wrote:
>>>> On 2/3/20 9:33 AM, Manfred wrote:
>> ...
>>>>> The first sentence in that clause is "Each universal character name in
>>>>> an identifier shall designate a character whose encoding in ISO/IEC
>>>>> 10646 falls into one of the ranges specified in D.1." which suggests
>>>>> that D.1 is the set of allowed characters in identifiers.
>>>>
>>>> No, it only means that the UCNs described in D.1 are in the set, not
>>>> that they constitute the entire set. Which is good, because D.1
>>>> deliberately excludes the UCNs that corresponding the basic source
>>>> character set. It would be pretty odd if you weren't allowed to use
>>>> "identifier" as an identifier - it consists entirely of basic source
>>>> characters.
>>> I meant "the set of allowed /extended/ characters in identifiers", I
>>> thought this was obvious since we are only talking about extended chars
>>> here.
>>
>> No, that doesn't fit either. Code containing a UCN not on that list has
>> undefined behavior, 
> 
> I'm sorry, just for the sake of sanity I will repeat my sentence from above:
> "... which suggests that D.1 is the set of allowed (implied: extended) 
> characters in identifiers".
> I have no idea why you brought up the basic character set first,

I mentioned basic character set characters because I took your words to
mean exactly what they said: "D.1 is the set of allowed characters in
identifiers.". It didn't occur to me, until you explained otherwise,
that what you actual meant was "D.1 is the set of allowed extended
characters in identifiers." There's two reasons for this: the word
"extended" didn't appear in your sentence, and is not implied by the
context (6.2.4.1 doesn't say anything about extended characters until
two  sentences after the one you were talking about). The second reason
was that D.1 doesn't list any extended characters; it only lists
"hexadecimal code values that are valid in universal character names".

> and now UCNs /not/ in D.1.


I mentioned UCNs not in D.1 to make the distinction between what
6.4.2.1p3 says about D.1, and your incorrect conclusions. D.1 is only
about UCNs, not extended characters. What 6.4.2.1p3 says is that UCNs
shall fall into one of the ranges specified in D.1. Violating a shall
that occurs outside of a constraints section means that the behavior is
undefined. That exact same meaning can be expressed negatively by saying
that UCNs that don't fall into one of those ranges have undefined behavior.
All I was doing was re-wording 6.4.2.1p3 to emphasize it's failure to
impose the requirements on extended characters that you were inferring
from it.

>>> I know they are different things. Nevertheless I think it is pretty
>>> ambiguous that 'π' and '\u03C0' behave differently.
>>
>> For #error directives and stringizing, I think it's quite clear that
>> they behave differently.
> 
> For the record (I know this one implementation and not the standard, 
> just saying):

I'm not surprised by the existence of an implementation that disagrees
with my interpretation of the standard on this point. I think it's
clear, but manifestly not everyone agrees with me on that point.

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Thread

Unicode in C Sources F Russell <fr@random.info> - 2020-02-01 17:12 +0000
  Re: Unicode in C Sources Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-01 17:37 +0000
    Re: Unicode in C Sources Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2020-02-01 20:43 +0300
      Re: Unicode in C Sources Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-02-01 10:57 -0800
        Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-02 16:58 +0100
          Re: Unicode in C Sources F Russell <fr@random.info> - 2020-02-02 17:05 +0000
            Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-02 19:52 +0100
              Re: Unicode in C Sources Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-02 19:20 +0000
            Re: Unicode in C Sources Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-03 12:38 +0000
              Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-03 09:16 -0500
                Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-03 15:32 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-02-03 09:01 -0800
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-02-03 21:15 +0000
              Re: Unicode in C Sources F Russell <fr@random.info> - 2020-02-04 02:06 +0000
              Re: Unicode in C Sources F Russell <fr@random.info> - 2020-02-04 02:19 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-04 02:50 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-04 08:16 +0100
    Re: Unicode in C Sources Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-01 18:10 +0000
      Re: Unicode in C Sources Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-02-01 15:19 -0500
        Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <invalid@add.invalid> - 2020-02-02 00:13 +0100
          Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <invalid@add.invalid> - 2020-02-02 00:46 +0100
            Re: Unicode in C Sources Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-02 00:24 +0000
          Re: Unicode in C Sources Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-02-02 08:14 -0500
            Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-02 17:59 +0100
              Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-02 14:44 -0500
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-02 21:49 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-02 16:58 -0500
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-03 15:33 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-03 15:38 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-03 10:25 -0500
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-03 19:11 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-03 15:59 -0500
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-04 16:51 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-04 16:05 -0500
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-19 12:17 -0800
      Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-02 17:09 +0100
        Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-02 14:46 -0500
          Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-02 21:39 +0100
            Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-02 17:07 -0500
              Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-03 13:12 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-02-03 16:46 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-03 16:47 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-03 13:36 -0800
                Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-03 23:56 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-03 13:06 -0500
                Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-03 22:25 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-03 13:29 -0800
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-19 12:30 -0800
                Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-19 14:19 -0800
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 07:50 -0700
                Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-02 08:16 -0700
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-03 22:33 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-03 23:05 -0500
                Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-03 23:10 -0500
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-04 18:05 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2020-02-04 09:38 -0800
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-04 18:46 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-02-04 16:07 -0500
            Re: Unicode in C Sources Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-02-02 14:54 -0800
      Re: Unicode in C Sources Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2020-02-03 15:10 -0800
  Re: Unicode in C Sources jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-02-03 07:47 +0100
    Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-03 14:00 +0100
      Re: Unicode in C Sources jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-02-03 16:45 +0100
        Re: Unicode in C Sources Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2020-02-03 17:54 +0100
        Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-03 22:36 +0100
          Re: Unicode in C Sources jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-02-04 16:33 +0100
            Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-04 16:45 +0100
              Re: Unicode in C Sources Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-02-04 13:02 -0800
                Re: Unicode in C Sources jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-02-04 23:18 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-05 11:07 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-05 14:49 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-16 06:23 -0800
                Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-05 10:54 +0100
              Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-05 14:51 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-05 14:03 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-05 16:31 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-05 15:59 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-02-05 16:02 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-05 16:59 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-02-05 18:02 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-02-05 19:37 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-05 19:37 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-02-05 21:02 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-02-06 10:34 +1300
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-05 23:10 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-02-06 13:53 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-06 13:26 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-02-06 07:27 -0500
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-05 23:03 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Mikko Rauhala <mjr@iki.fi> - 2020-02-06 10:46 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-05 21:47 +0100
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-05 22:50 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-02-07 00:25 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-02-07 02:07 +0000
                Re: Unicode in C Sources David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-02-05 16:26 +0100
      Re: Unicode in C Sources antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-04-18 03:58 +0000

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