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Groups > alt.os.linux > #54265
| From | Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.os.linux |
| Subject | Re: freshly installed SW not found |
| Date | 2019-03-01 01:14 +0100 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <q59tht$r40$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <slrnq7dd48.3t0.dan@djph.net> <q56pf6$1l5$1@dont-email.me> <q56rag$bd9$3@dont-email.me> <q58ho5$62k$1@dont-email.me> <q599fd$nm9$3@dont-email.me> |
On 28/02/19 19:32, William Unruh wrote: > On 2019-02-28, Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> wrote: >> On 27/02/19 21:18, William Unruh wrote: >>> On 2019-02-27, Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> wrote: >>>> On 27/02/19 17:02, Dan Purgert wrote: >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>>> >>>>> Soviet_Mario wrote: >>>>>> On 27/02/19 13:44, Aragorn wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 12:52:04 +0100, Soviet_Mario scribbled: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 26/02/19 22:46, William Unruh wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Something like rsnapshot (using rsync) will store about 30 backups of >>>>>>>>> 200GB of data in half a TB. (it does differential backups so only files >>>>>>>>> which changed get backed up). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Not tarring or compressing means that the backup data is easy to get at >>>>>>>>> which is usually what you want. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I call this inode space pollution, a thing that I don't find desirable >>>>>>>> on the backup target (even if I have to accept it in the userspace). >>>>>>>> It slows down searches, takes up space in itself just to store a huge >>>>>>>> number of inodes :\ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> rsnapshot uses hard-linking for files that haven't changed since the last >>>>>>> backup. Hard links don't use up any inodes. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> mmm, then I must have chosen the wrong terms. >>>>>> But some other kind of disk space must be used to add a link >>>>> >>>>> Nope. >>>> >>>> so the link information is stored where ? >>>> I'm not saying the content need to be stored, but the link >>>> to it for sure : in as many places as there are the links >>> >>> In the directory entry for that file. The directory entry contains the >>> inode. That file simply points to that inode. That it is the same inode >>> that some other entry points to as well, well,that is what a hard link >>> means (in the inode structure is a number which says how many directory >>> entries point to it. >>> >>>> >>>> This does not duplicate the info of Inode (Aragorns taught), >>>> but then the link is a reference to be dereferenced. So when >>> >>> That is a soft link. Here you just have an ordinary directory entry >>> which points to the intial inode. >> >> No you have as many ordinary directory entries as the number >> of hardlinks, which is what I refer to as name pollution. > > Yes. In different directories. >> >> It's a situation somewhat similar (a metaphore obv.) to >> enclosing names in a program in namespaces to avoid global >> name space pollution (in the example an archive hides the >> names inside it and result in a single entry) > > No idea what this analogy is supposed to be sorry. > >> >> Let me precise I'm not absolutely saying it is faster to >> lookup for a name inside it instead of a regular entry ! >> I'm just saying that wide range operations (such as getting >> the disk usage maps and enumerating trees elements like >> folders) are. > > Nope. > >> >> Also copying / moving whole large top level branch becomes >> faster as (apart from reduced compressed size) the number of >> files is shrinked. > > Nope. You just move the large top level branch. and if you have an > intelligent move operation, like rsync -H it moves every inode only > once. If you have a stupid one, like mv, then it will dereference the > hard links and move them (across filesystem boundaries that is) > separately. On the same filesystem all mv does is change the directory > entries of the top level of the branch. > i had taken for granted that the move operation were between different physical disks (as for safe backups). I have empiric proof that with every OS, moving 100 G consisting of few files or millions of files takes up much different time > >> >> If one looks for a single file and knows where it is in >> advance, the regular hardlink style is faster > > And if one does the looking is an intelligent way (eg lists the inode > entries of those with multiple hard links) one only needs to read each > inode once. > > > >> >>> >>>> the file manager scans the disk, re-read the same inode many >>>> times or at best looks-up some hash table to find whether or >>>> not the info is just present. Reading an inode entry is fast. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> to somewhere. And this huge list of items (be them inode or >>>>>> else) really slows down directory listing and scan, for >>>>>> example when I perform searches or get properties (counts, >>>>>> stats etc) >>>>> >>>>> Which'll be as equally slow, if not slower, when you try doing it on a >>>>> tarball. >>>> >>>> If one has just a huge one, for sure. That's why I wanted >>>> tarbal:folder=1:1 >>> >>> NO. You have to uncompress the tarball, then search through the huge >> >> it's not so huge. But yes, in case I search for a particular >> item it is slower, I didn't mean that > > Sorry, up above you were complaining about the hard links being slower > and not you do not meanthat? What do you mean? > >> >>> contents of that tarball to find the entry you want. That is slow. Very >>> slow. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> >>>>> iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAlx2tIcACgkQjhHd8xJ5 >>>>> ooHDKgf/VM4oQseTinWNvAvJbPnO5ipuFGBOy4uNARSdhB7nxgIH7u7yCHDhcXB9 >>>>> wc86oN8Niahv6e+k8MR37o56rMukvr4VJ/3ZkqPIDDImTIZpGcBFyPzSMxWmTETR >>>>> 16iv0s8dnWKRyOXJb0K+43uCxY+LU/PL/aCrCOGXsUm4Bb7eYyvQJrU1X720VsvN >>>>> G6Z+NQMefyINCklDqWjXwKEyB69Ux3teeZSp/SaqLQl68zL0EZQoWoZCeoUEgjZ5 >>>>> 4/EDYL7Lhrokwwb1OI+RGnhkY8xBny05bw5aP6aTKz+DtXZq4ALodFVs9y56gX0J >>>>> A4YGoaATSdCI94KigZbPaqwjB9sLTQ== >>>>> =KZ0n >>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> -- 1) Resistere, resistere, resistere. 2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti Soviet_Mario - (aka Gatto_Vizzato)
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freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-26 19:47 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-02-26 20:28 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-26 21:51 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-26 21:46 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 12:52 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-02-27 12:44 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-02-27 13:27 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-02-27 15:16 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 16:59 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-02-27 16:02 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 20:46 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-27 20:18 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-28 12:47 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-28 18:32 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-03-01 01:14 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-01 01:54 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-03-01 03:09 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-02-27 20:21 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-27 23:02 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-02-27 23:24 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-02-28 04:46 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-02-28 10:59 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-28 18:51 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-28 18:24 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-01 13:49 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-01 18:22 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-03-01 19:06 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-03-03 01:08 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-03-03 00:14 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-03 13:00 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-03 12:46 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-28 18:15 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-27 16:38 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 20:51 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-02-28 04:39 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-02-27 14:30 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-02-27 07:05 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-02-27 14:29 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-02-27 08:50 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-02-28 00:05 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 16:56 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-03-01 14:58 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-03-01 15:04 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-03-01 10:50 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-01 18:40 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-03-01 14:40 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-01 23:38 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-03-01 19:09 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-02 03:47 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-03-01 22:55 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-02 07:08 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:27 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-03-02 04:10 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-02 16:29 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:54 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:24 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-03-02 00:28 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:31 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-03-02 11:31 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-03-02 11:34 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-03-02 11:48 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-03-02 12:15 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 23:15 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> - 2019-03-03 00:33 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-03-03 01:38 +0100
Compressed filesystems [Was: Re: freshly installed SW not found] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-03 13:11 +0100
Re: Compressed filesystems [Was: Re: freshly installed SW not found] Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-03-03 19:49 +0100
Re: Compressed filesystems [Was: Re: freshly installed SW not found] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-03 21:17 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-03 12:49 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-03-03 12:35 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:22 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Wildman <best_lay@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-26 13:31 -0600
Re: freshly installed SW not found Wildman <best_lay@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-26 15:42 -0600
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-26 21:51 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-02-26 14:36 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-26 21:58 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-26 21:49 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 12:54 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-26 19:51 +0000
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