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Groups > alt.os.linux > #54268
| From | Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.os.linux |
| Subject | Re: freshly installed SW not found |
| Date | 2019-03-01 13:49 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <slrnq7ie30.3mp.dan@djph.net> (permalink) |
| References | (6 earlier) <q56c4p$25f$2@dont-email.me> <slrnq7dd48.3t0.dan@djph.net> <q56pf6$1l5$1@dont-email.me> <slrnq7ffp7.3t0.dan@djph.net> <q5973c$fc4$1@dont-email.me> |
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Soviet_Mario wrote:
> On 28/02/19 11:59, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> Soviet_Mario wrote:
>>> On 27/02/19 17:02, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>>> Soviet_Mario wrote:
>>>>> On 27/02/19 13:44, Aragorn wrote:
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> rsnapshot uses hard-linking for files that haven't changed since
>>>>>> the last backup. Hard links don't use up any inodes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> mmm, then I must have chosen the wrong terms.
>>>>> But some other kind of disk space must be used to add a link
>>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> so the link information is stored where ?
>>> I'm not saying the content need to be stored, but the link
>>> to it for sure : in as many places as there are the links
>>
>> On the filesystem/directory metadata ("in" the directory, but it doesn't
>> take space.
>
> i reckon it does, even if it takes "reserved" space. And
> anyway it takes time to be readed
You reckon wrong. Upon creation, of the filesystem, the space is
already used (for the inode itself). After that, you just update the
inode to say how many "files(tm)" are hard-linked to it.
It doesn't matter if there's only one file linked to the inode, or a
thousand - you still have to read that inode to know where the data
actually is.
It's faster to read a thousand "files" linked to the same inode, than
1000 separate inodes, as you're only reading metadata (contained in
tightly grouped tables) rather than having to jump all over the
filesystem.
>> [...]
>> You're crossing hard-links (file A and file B are exactly the same
>> inode,
>
> I don't miss this point, I was saying a different thing :
> this same inode is listed under as many directories as the
> hardlinks
No. "inodes" don't exist in directories. They exist in metadata tables
(e.g. stored in the first few cylinders of a FS).
"Files" in a directory are all hard-links, pointing to the inode tables.
In a lot of cases, there's only one hard-link -- such as the SINGLE file
"$HOME/test.txt" pointing to whatever inode it was assigned.
The inodes / inode tables then provide all the metadata:
- size and physical location on disk
- owner and group
- permission bits
- relevant access / modify / etc. timestamps (FS dependent)
- reference counter of hard-links
>
>> there is no reference / dereference), and soft-links (file A
>> [inode 1234] points to fileB [inode 5678])
>
> yes to be able to cross FS boundaries
>
>>
>>>>> to somewhere. And this huge list of items (be them inode or
>>>>> else) really slows down directory listing and scan, for
>>>>> example when I perform searches or get properties (counts,
>>>>> stats etc)
>>>>
>>>> Which'll be as equally slow, if not slower, when you try doing it on a
>>>> tarball.
>>>
>>> If one has just a huge one, for sure. That's why I wanted
>>> tarbal:folder=1:1
>>
>> Er, which means that you have to untar the whole thing, at least into
>> memory. Which, depending on your hardware will result in no gains, or a
>> net slowdown.
>
> lets put it from start.
>
> Long time ago in a distant galaxy, there was a file system
> structure very deeply nested and complex, but much static in
> its general shape and very well known and familiar to its owner
>
> The contents changed here and there.
> This wierd owner desired two different and contradictory
> goals : to have phisical copies of the updates versions
> (distinct files) while at the same time sharing one single
> copy of the folder structure (or a "super-set" when some
> change to it occurred), as in crawling in the tree he
> seldomly required search.
> to be continued...
It sounds like you might be conflating a _filesystem_ (e.g. ext4) with a
hierarchy (e.g. the linux FHS).
A filesystem (e.g. ext4) defines how things are physically stored on
disk -- that is, stuff like where we're keeping the metadata, or how
much space we're skipping between file writes, or whether or not the
filename is directly associated to the data, etc.)
On the other hand, a hierarchy defines the layout of files and
directories on said filesystem. On Linux FHS-compliant systems, this
means something like this:
"/" - Root. Everything is a child of this directory.
"/bin" - system binaries generally required for booting
"/boot" - bootloader / kernel
"/dev" - devices
"/etc" - short for "et cetera". System-wide configurations are stored
here
"/home" - user home directories
"/lib" - shared libraries required for booting
"/lib[qual]" - additional shared libraries, generally used for
multiarch support. e.g. lib32, lib64.
"/media" - used for automounting media
"/mnt" - used for "temporary" mountpoints
"/opt" - "optional" things (e.g. system-specific binaries, such as
an IDE or similar).[1]
"/proc" - processor / memory / etc. hardware info
"/root" - the home directory for the root "user"
"/run" - runtime variable data (e.g. pidfiles, lockfiles, and so on)
"/sbin" - "system" binaries. Stuff that root needs for system
management that aren't required at boot time.
"/srv" - data for services provided by the system (e.g. /srv/ftp)
"/tmp" - temporary data
"/usr" - another hierarchy of read-only system resources, generally
provided by a distribution. It partially duplicates the root
hierarchy with /usr/{bin,lib,sbin,share}.
"/usr/local" - LOCAL hierarchy of read-only system resources,
generally provided by an admin for use either on a specific host,
though can also mean "local to this organization". Like /usr,
this contains the subdirectories bin,lib,sbin,share.
[1] Personally, I find /opt pointless, and only use it when a package
maintainer decides to dump stuff there (read: I don't wanna recompile
and put it in /usr/local/, where it belongs).
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|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
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freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-26 19:47 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-02-26 20:28 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-26 21:51 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-26 21:46 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 12:52 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-02-27 12:44 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-02-27 13:27 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-02-27 15:16 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 16:59 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-02-27 16:02 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 20:46 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-27 20:18 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-28 12:47 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-28 18:32 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-03-01 01:14 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-01 01:54 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-03-01 03:09 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-02-27 20:21 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-27 23:02 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-02-27 23:24 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-02-28 04:46 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-02-28 10:59 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-28 18:51 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-28 18:24 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-01 13:49 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-01 18:22 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-03-01 19:06 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-03-03 01:08 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-03-03 00:14 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-03 13:00 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-03 12:46 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-28 18:15 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-27 16:38 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 20:51 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-02-28 04:39 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-02-27 14:30 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-02-27 07:05 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-02-27 14:29 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-02-27 08:50 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-02-28 00:05 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 16:56 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-03-01 14:58 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-03-01 15:04 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-03-01 10:50 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-01 18:40 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-03-01 14:40 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-01 23:38 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-03-01 19:09 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-02 03:47 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-03-01 22:55 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-02 07:08 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:27 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-03-02 04:10 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-02 16:29 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:54 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:24 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-03-02 00:28 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:31 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-03-02 11:31 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-03-02 11:34 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-03-02 11:48 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-03-02 12:15 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 23:15 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> - 2019-03-03 00:33 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-03-03 01:38 +0100
Compressed filesystems [Was: Re: freshly installed SW not found] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-03 13:11 +0100
Re: Compressed filesystems [Was: Re: freshly installed SW not found] Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-03-03 19:49 +0100
Re: Compressed filesystems [Was: Re: freshly installed SW not found] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-03 21:17 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-03 12:49 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-03-03 12:35 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:22 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Wildman <best_lay@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-26 13:31 -0600
Re: freshly installed SW not found Wildman <best_lay@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-26 15:42 -0600
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-26 21:51 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-02-26 14:36 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-26 21:58 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-26 21:49 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 12:54 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-26 19:51 +0000
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