Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #482888

Re: Daft as Einstein eh!

From	Volney <volney@volney.invalid>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Daft as Einstein eh!
Date	2019-02-04 10:08 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<q39kaf$lnf$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(13 earlier) <JiA5E.225848$Pa4.150749@fx30.am4> <bcb0927f-492f-46ec-a771-baffecafcecc@googlegroups.com> <PYF5E.174025$JE1.135138@fx11.am4> <q39hss$7n5$1@dont-email.me> <4e3dc5ed-a3e4-4eae-80a8-9faa528e47d4@googlegroups.com>

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On 2/4/2019 9:39 AM, maluwozniak@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, 4 February 2019 15:23:29 UTC+1, Volney  wrote:
>> On 2/3/2019 12:58 PM, Keith Stein wrote:
>>> On 03/02/2019 12:12, Gary Harnagel wrote:
>>>> "Misunderstanding" a rebuttal, Keith?  The Fizeau-type experiments with
>>>> MOVING water refute your assertion because the speed is NOT c +/- v,
>>>> where v is the velocity of the water.  The value is closest to
>>>> c + v*(1 - 1/n²).  This experiment has been repeated many times with
>>>> increasing accuracy using methods that overcome ALL of the bogus
>>>> objections
>>>> you have raised.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fizeau_experiment#Repetitions
>>>
>>>
>>> Whatever happens in Fizeau's laboratory,
>>> it can be described in terms of Galilean coordinates,
>>> and if i look at Fizeau's experiment from some other
>>> Galilean frame of reference then the time at which
>>> anything happened in Fizeau's laboratory is exactly
>>> the same in both Galilean frames of reference,and
>>> nothing Fizeau discovered changes that fact eh!
>>>
>> Umm, no. The whole reason behind the seemingly anomolous result of the
>> Fizeau experiment is due to the speeds NOT combining according to the
>> Galilean transform.
> 
> So, according to you Fizeau has falsified
> GT and physics was using them for 50 years more
> knowing they are false. Right?
> 
Nobody knew at the time that Fizeau found evidence that falsified the 
GT, including Fizeau. The GT works OK as a low speed limit since the 
value (1+uv/c^2) is close enough to 1 for u and v << c. Since everything 
people of the 1800s worked with had velocities much less than c, except 
for light itself, the GT worked just fine for them as a low speed limit.

Nobody knew the GT was wrong until Lorentz, Poincare and Einstein came 
along.

Thread

Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 12:36 +0000
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-27 05:01 -0800
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 15:30 +0000
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-27 08:21 -0800
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-27 11:15 -0800
        Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 21:38 +0000
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-27 16:33 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 18:36 +0000
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-28 11:33 -0800
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-28 22:07 -0600
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-29 08:07 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-29 04:47 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-29 13:00 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-30 06:59 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Python <python@python.invalid> - 2019-01-31 00:34 +0100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 15:42 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-30 23:10 -0800
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-27 18:36 -0800
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-27 19:07 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 18:57 +0000
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 11:21 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-27 10:10 -0600
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 17:53 +0000
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 14:15 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 12:05 -0800
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 22:12 +0000
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 16:23 -0800
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2019-01-28 07:42 -0800
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2019-01-31 14:21 -0800
        Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 03:48 +0000
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2019-02-01 08:29 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 07:48 +0000
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2019-02-02 11:59 -0800
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-27 23:10 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2019-01-27 14:03 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-28 11:29 +1100
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 02:43 +0000
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-28 14:12 +1100
        Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 07:58 +0000
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-28 19:26 +1100
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 00:38 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 09:37 +0000
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-28 22:14 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 14:15 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 07:46 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 17:15 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 11:13 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-28 09:07 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 18:10 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-28 11:19 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-29 12:03 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-29 09:29 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-29 21:42 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2019-01-30 15:31 +0100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 16:00 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2019-01-30 20:45 +0100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 22:28 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 23:33 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 18:12 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2019-01-31 10:57 +0100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-31 12:21 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 06:24 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-31 20:06 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 12:32 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-01 08:33 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-31 07:23 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Káèek Cnemu <upkp@kawpwnus.cv> - 2019-01-31 15:28 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Káèek Cnemu <upkp@kawpwnus.cv> - 2019-01-31 15:31 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-01 12:47 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Káèek Cnemu <upkp@kawpwnus.cv> - 2019-02-01 20:03 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 18:26 -0500
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 20:10 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-04 19:16 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-04 01:13 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-05 12:12 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 16:14 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 16:35 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 17:19 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 17:33 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 18:50 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 19:55 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-31 17:03 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 04:11 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-31 22:35 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 10:05 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 09:37 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 23:37 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 18:33 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 06:02 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-02-02 00:32 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 17:32 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-02-02 10:43 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 19:17 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 15:17 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-03 23:19 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-02 23:19 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 23:55 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 16:02 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 17:56 -0500
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 23:23 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 18:23 -0500
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 14:46 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-02-04 10:49 -0600
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 09:37 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 18:21 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 13:23 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-02-04 16:31 -0600
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 22:27 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-02-05 02:04 -0500
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-02-05 09:27 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 10:40 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 19:07 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-02-04 10:29 -0600
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-02-04 18:16 +0100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2019-01-31 09:03 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-31 09:33 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Káèek Cnemu <upkp@kawpwnus.cv> - 2019-01-31 20:48 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-30 23:13 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-31 20:11 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-31 03:29 -0800
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-28 03:50 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 19:10 +0000
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-28 11:35 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-01 16:44 +1100
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 09:17 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-01 21:53 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 14:43 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-01 08:12 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 09:31 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-02-01 16:51 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 21:43 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-02-01 22:23 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 22:43 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-02 11:11 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 07:13 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-02 22:06 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 11:31 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-03 04:12 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 17:58 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-04 08:25 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 10:50 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-04 22:23 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 12:11 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-04 23:33 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-06 17:13 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-06 00:00 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 15:18 +0000
                Daft as Keith Stein eh! "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2019-02-04 08:51 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-05 11:49 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-03 19:51 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-02-04 09:26 -0500
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-04 06:39 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-02-04 10:08 -0500
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-04 07:35 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 16:51 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-05 07:45 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-04 08:13 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 21:52 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 12:02 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-04 23:43 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-04 04:49 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 13:23 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 13:28 +0000
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 00:13 -0800
        Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 12:58 +0000
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-02-03 10:56 -0800
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-27 23:13 -0800
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-28 22:18 +1100
        Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 04:55 -0800
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-29 00:28 +1100
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 05:48 -0800
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2019-01-28 07:50 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 09:25 -0800
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 12:50 -0800
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 15:41 -0800
        Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 15:44 -0800
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 16:56 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Káèek Cnemu <upkp@kawpwnus.cv> - 2019-01-31 15:24 +0000
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Káèek Cnemu <upkp@kawpwnus.cv> - 2019-01-31 15:22 +0000
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 20:03 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 20:05 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2019-02-03 15:24 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2019-02-03 15:29 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2019-02-03 15:33 -0800

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