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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #482685

Re: Daft as Einstein eh!

From Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Daft as Einstein eh!
Date 2019-02-01 08:33 +1100
Message-ID <gbh7tgFcs1eU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (12 earlier) <RSj4E.592805$Fi6.514076@fx12.am4> <gbf0tiFsbhkU1@mid.individual.net> <Lww4E.228663$mz2.200113@fx23.am4> <gbfs5fF3bkpU1@mid.individual.net> <IVB4E.684438$kk4.455137@fx36.am4>

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On 31/01/2019 11:32 pm, Keith Stein wrote:
> On 31/01/2019 09:06, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 31/01/2019 5:24 pm, Keith Stein wrote:
>>> On 31/01/2019 01:21, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 31/01/2019 3:00 am, Keith Stein wrote:
>>>>> On 29/01/2019 10:42, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>> On 29/01/2019 8:29 pm, Keith Stein wrote:
>>>>>>> On 29/01/2019 01:03, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You seem to be arguing in favour of a kind of aether dragging 
>>>>>>>> model, except in your model, matter substitutes for the aether, 
>>>>>>>> no matter how tenuous the matter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Exactly so Sylvia. One could say that it is equivalent
>>>>>>> to a fully dragged ether model, but i would much rather we
>>>>>>> not do that, as, from experience, the introduction of the
>>>>>>> notion of "ether" only serves to confuse. The medium, for
>>>>>>> any wave, be it water, sound, or light, is the "matter"
>>>>>>> which it is passing through.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Such a model faces the same obstacles as the aether dragging 
>>>>>>>> model did. It was impossible to make it fit the experimental 
>>>>>>>> evidence without introducing ever more implausible assumptions 
>>>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_drag_hypothesis
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we limit our discussion to inertial coordinate systems,
>>>>>>> like Einstein did in his SR, i do not agree that any
>>>>>>> additional assumptions are required. Your link, while
>>>>>>> entirely appropriate and relevant, actually illustrates
>>>>>>> how the notion of "ether" only served to confuse. I would
>>>>>>> happily explain the fallacies  in any of those arguments
>>>>>>> given in your Wikipedia article, but really do not have
>>>>>>> time to take that lot on right now eh!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For your model to be viable, you would have to address all the 
>>>>>>>> issues that faced physicists in the pre-relativity era. In the 
>>>>>>>> end, they were not successful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pick the argument which you think most clearly
>>>>>>> demonstrates that my model is wrong Sylvia, and
>>>>>>> i will explain to you why it doesn't eh!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> keith stein
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's consider the situation being examined by the Fizeau experiment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If light travels through stationary water at some speed v, and 
>>>>>> then the water itself is moved at speed w relative to some 
>>>>>> observer, what does your model say about the speed that the light 
>>>>>> will travel relative to that observer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> v +/- w?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Something else?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for the delay responding, been away on the boat.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you put the water in a tank on a train, then for sure
>>>>> it is easy (for me :) ) to show that the speed of light
>>>>> in the water relative to observer on the embankment
>>>>>   = v +/- w
>>>>> where v is the speed of the train, and w = c/n(water)
>>>>>
>>>>> Now this was not of course how Fizeau determined the
>>>>> speed of light in moving water, and i have two quite
>>>>> separate objections to Fizeau's method. Firstly he
>>>>> relies on reversing the water flow without changing
>>>>> the optical path by a fraction on the wavelength of
>>>>> light, and i am very doubtful that he could do that,
>>>>> or know that he had, even if he could.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even more important, because the water circulates,
>>>>> i.e. changes direction, the velocity of water is
>>>>> not constant, and therefore the water does not
>>>>> constitute an inertial frame of reference.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the few things Einstein got right, in my
>>>>> opinion, was to start by limiting his considerations
>>>>> to inertial ,constant velocity, systems, as Einstein
>>>>> did  his SR.
>>>>>
>>>>> So is there ANY experiment (using inertial systems)
>>>>> which proves that light does not travel with a velocity
>>>>> appropriate to, and relative to, the matter it is
>>>>> traveling through, Sylvia?
>>>>>
>>>>> keith stein
>>>>
>>>> Relativity describes the results for inertial observers. It doesn't 
>>>> require everything to be inertial.
>>>
>>> Right, and i was indeed overlooking that. Thank you.
>>>
>>>> I don't doubt that you'll seek to argue that any result is invalid 
>>>> if it contradicts your model.
>>>
>>> You are probably right about that too, Sylvia, for it is indeed
>>> inconceivable to me that light travels relative to the observer,
>>> and of course, without time dilation, it can't eh!
>>>
>>>> In the later refinement by Michelson and Morley, the experimental 
>>>> set up was such that motion of the tubes did not move the fringes. 
>>>> It is grasping at straws to argue that despite that, the reversal of 
>>>> the flow would do so for reasons unrelated to effect the flow has on 
>>>> the passage of light.
>>>>
>>>> In any case, the results are not so easily dismissed. You are arguing w
>>>> that they are simply wrong, but you also need to address the fact 
>>>> that both experiments produced results that are consistent with a 
>>>> theory that wouldn't appear until 20 years after MM's work. It would 
>>>> be an extraordinary coincidence were it to happen, in two separate 
>>>> experiments, due to experimental error.
>>>
>>> So let's leave Fizeau on the back burner.
>>
>> Why? If your theory predicts different outcomes for Fizeau type 
>> experiments than those experiments actually produce, then your theory 
>> is falsified by them.
>>
>> In a theory where time and space are absolute, the conclusion from 
>> Fizeau would have to be that the speed of light in water varies 
>> depending on how fast the water is moving relative to some reference 
>> frame, and that reference frame has to be at rest relative to the 
>> surface of the Earth, because the speed of light in water is not noted 
>> to depend on its direction.
>>
>> So now you have a theory in which the speed of light is constant 
>> relative to residual gasses found in a vacuum created on Earth, to 
>> account for a version of Michelson Morley performed in a vacuum, but 
>> is not constant (albeit at a lower speed) relative to the much denser 
>> water. It's a tough sell.
> 
> You are right about it being a tough sell eh! :-(

It should be a tough sell even to yourself. How outlandish does your 
theory have to get before you start to doubt its underlying premise?

> 
> But what about my super accurate watches Sylvia, can i not
> sell you one of those? If they work as well as i think they
> would then you should be able to measure time dilations
> at virtually no cost. Just slip one on the wrist of an
> astronaut  before they take off, and you should be able to
> tell how long they have spent on the ISS simply by checking
> their watch when they get home. Seriously i do think someone
> should make multi oscillator watches, and, unlike my theory,
> they would be very easy to sell, i think.

You don't have any such watches, and no one makes them. Anyway, I doubt 
you would accept the results if they conflicted with your view. You'd 
just claim they were faulty, or that they'd been tampered with.

> 
>  > It's worth remembering that the likes of Fizeau were not trying
>  > to show that time does weird stuff. They were just trying to make
>  > sense of what they were seeing, and were finding it a tough nut to
>  > crack.
> 
> In fact the theory came first, and Fizeau was claiming to have
> confirmed Fresnel's partial drag formula, as i'm sure you know eh!

Fresnel's partial dragging formula was not about time. I don't see where 
you think that point takes you.

Sylvia.

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Thread

Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 12:36 +0000
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-27 05:01 -0800
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 15:30 +0000
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-27 08:21 -0800
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-27 11:15 -0800
        Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 21:38 +0000
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-27 16:33 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 18:36 +0000
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-28 11:33 -0800
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-28 22:07 -0600
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-29 08:07 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-29 04:47 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-29 13:00 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-30 06:59 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Python <python@python.invalid> - 2019-01-31 00:34 +0100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 15:42 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-30 23:10 -0800
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-27 18:36 -0800
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-27 19:07 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 18:57 +0000
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 11:21 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-27 10:10 -0600
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 17:53 +0000
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 14:15 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 12:05 -0800
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 22:12 +0000
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 16:23 -0800
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2019-01-28 07:42 -0800
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2019-01-31 14:21 -0800
        Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 03:48 +0000
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2019-02-01 08:29 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 07:48 +0000
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2019-02-02 11:59 -0800
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-27 23:10 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2019-01-27 14:03 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-28 11:29 +1100
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 02:43 +0000
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-28 14:12 +1100
        Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 07:58 +0000
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-28 19:26 +1100
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 00:38 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 09:37 +0000
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-28 22:14 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 14:15 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 07:46 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 17:15 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 11:13 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-28 09:07 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 18:10 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-28 11:19 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-29 12:03 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-29 09:29 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-29 21:42 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2019-01-30 15:31 +0100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 16:00 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2019-01-30 20:45 +0100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 22:28 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 23:33 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 18:12 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2019-01-31 10:57 +0100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-31 12:21 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 06:24 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-31 20:06 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 12:32 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-01 08:33 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-31 07:23 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Káèek Cnemu <upkp@kawpwnus.cv> - 2019-01-31 15:28 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Káèek Cnemu <upkp@kawpwnus.cv> - 2019-01-31 15:31 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-01 12:47 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Káèek Cnemu <upkp@kawpwnus.cv> - 2019-02-01 20:03 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 18:26 -0500
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 20:10 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-04 19:16 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-04 01:13 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-05 12:12 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 16:14 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 16:35 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 17:19 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 17:33 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 18:50 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 19:55 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-31 17:03 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 04:11 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-31 22:35 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 10:05 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 09:37 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 23:37 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 18:33 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 06:02 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-02-02 00:32 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 17:32 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-02-02 10:43 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 19:17 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 15:17 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-03 23:19 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-02 23:19 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 23:55 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 16:02 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 17:56 -0500
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 23:23 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 18:23 -0500
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 14:46 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-02-04 10:49 -0600
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 09:37 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 18:21 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 13:23 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-02-04 16:31 -0600
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 22:27 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-02-05 02:04 -0500
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-02-05 09:27 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 10:40 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 19:07 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-02-04 10:29 -0600
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-02-04 18:16 +0100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2019-01-31 09:03 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-31 09:33 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Káèek Cnemu <upkp@kawpwnus.cv> - 2019-01-31 20:48 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-30 23:13 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-31 20:11 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-31 03:29 -0800
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-28 03:50 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 19:10 +0000
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-28 11:35 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-01 16:44 +1100
              Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 09:17 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-01 21:53 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 14:43 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-01 08:12 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 09:31 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-02-01 16:51 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 21:43 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-02-01 22:23 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 22:43 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-02 11:11 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-02 07:13 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-02 22:06 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 11:31 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-03 04:12 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 17:58 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-04 08:25 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 10:50 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-04 22:23 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 12:11 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-04 23:33 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-06 17:13 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-06 00:00 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 15:18 +0000
                Daft as Keith Stein eh! "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2019-02-04 08:51 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-05 11:49 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-03 19:51 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-02-04 09:26 -0500
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-04 06:39 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-02-04 10:08 -0500
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-04 07:35 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 16:51 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-02-05 07:45 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-04 08:13 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 21:52 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 12:02 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-02-04 23:43 +1100
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-04 04:49 -0800
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 13:23 +0000
                Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 13:28 +0000
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 00:13 -0800
        Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 12:58 +0000
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2019-02-03 10:56 -0800
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-27 23:13 -0800
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-28 22:18 +1100
        Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 04:55 -0800
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-01-29 00:28 +1100
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! maluwozniak@gmail.com - 2019-01-28 05:48 -0800
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2019-01-28 07:50 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 09:25 -0800
    Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-01-28 12:50 -0800
      Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 15:41 -0800
        Re: Daft as Einstein eh! JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 15:44 -0800
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2019-01-30 16:56 -0800
            Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Káèek Cnemu <upkp@kawpwnus.cv> - 2019-01-31 15:24 +0000
          Re: Daft as Einstein eh! Káèek Cnemu <upkp@kawpwnus.cv> - 2019-01-31 15:22 +0000
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 20:03 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 20:05 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2019-02-03 15:24 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2019-02-03 15:29 -0800
  Re: Daft as Einstein eh! carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2019-02-03 15:33 -0800

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