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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #37737

Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation

From "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation
Date 2015-03-29 16:27 -0400
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <op.xv90f4k1wa0t4m@localhost> (permalink)
References (11 earlier) <mbf7ol$ltu$1@dont-email.me> <op.xty06ba4v6dtjm@localhost> <mbknua$hr5$1@dont-email.me> <op.xtzxovk4v6dtjm@localhost> <mbl16q$mt5$1@dont-email.me>

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On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:20:46 -0500, Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> wrote:
> on 13/02/2015 12:44:47, "Rod Pemberton" wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 06:42:38 -0500, Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com>
>> > wrote:
>>> on 13/02/2015 01:02:21, "Rod Pemberton" wrote:
>> > wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 Feb 2015 04:35:55 -0500, Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com>
>> > wrote:
>>>> wrote:
>> wrote:

>>>>> You're confusing compile time with run time. This has
>>>>> been a consistent theme in discussions about the
>>>>> placement of the control flow stack;
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> Rod Pemberton suffers from this confusion too.
>>>>
>>>> The only point of confusion here was that I was using
>>>> the computer science definition for control flow while
>>>> some others here were using a Forth specific definition
>>>> which differed.
>>>
>>> The definitions don't differ.
>>
>> 1) That's not what Ms. Rather just said.  Do you take issue
>> with her understanding?
>>
>> I've notice you seem to take issue with what she says, but
>> only in response to others.  You never seem to take a direct
>> confrontation against any of her statements.
>
> Please quote her. I've not seen any statements from her with which I
> disagree (with the exception of getting a value on the data stack after
> control-sys; two others picked her up on that, which is more than
> sufficient).

Please, re-read.  She said my understanding of flow control in
regards to Forth was incorrect and provided a narrower explanation.
You took offense to my use of her explanation, immediately afterwards.

>> 2) That means my usage in the past has always been correct,
>> and your persistent claims that it was wrong was incorrect.
>
> No, since you said this upthread:
>
> <quote>
> Forth usually uses two stacks, one for data and another for control
> flow.  The control flow stack is called the "return" stack.  C usually
> uses one stack for both data and control flow.  So, control flow is
> *not* interleaved on a single stack like for C. It's on it's own stack.
> </quote>
>
> That's wrong.

How is that wrong?  I.e., to what exactly, do you take an exception?
At best, the final sentence could use a trivial clarification.

> And this;
>
> <quote>
> If the standard requires that the control-flow stack behave as a distinct
> stack, is not allowed to have control-flow interleaved with user data on
> the data stack, and can not use the return stack because it would break
> threading, just how would you implement an ITC Forth when neither of the
> two available stacks could be used temporarily as a control-flow stack?
> Are you suggesting using a dedicated third stack?
> </quote>
>
> which is also wrong.

How can a question be wrong? ...  Honestly, I've never heard anyone
ever declare a question to be wrong before.  That's a first.

This appears to have been taken out-of-context by requoting it here
without the related context and due to ignoring the fact it was a
question of someone else.  This question was in reply to Hugh and
asks him about what he was doing.  Please, re-read.

> "Run time control flow data" doesn't have the meaning you think it has,

Apparently, it does.

> since we're not talking about dynamic or hotspot compilation.

Now, you're introducing concepts completely extraneous to Forth ...

> You mean return address; in an ITC or DTC that is the next token
> in the thread.

The return address is clearly not the token itself which
is what you wrote.  I'll take it that you meant:

  "... that is the [address of] the next token in the thread."

> This "run time" is where you keep comng off the rails.
> Control flow is compile time data that tells us about
> run time flows, not data that is used and controls the
> flow at run time.

No.  That's completely wrong.

Control flow is the language syntax and related components
which controls the non-linear flow of the program at run time.

>>>> Forth not using standard computer science terminology
>>>> has been a point of contention, not just by me, but
>>>> with many others who've attempted to understand or
>>>> develop Forth.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Control flow includes calls and returns (subroutines),
>>> if/then/else, loops, case and switch, interrupts; in
>>> fact any flow that's not linear. Anything that takes a jump.
>>
>> That is both the computer science definition and what I always
>> used until Ms. Rather clarified with the narrow definition.
>
> Where?

You must've missed some posts or TL;DR'd as usual.
Please, check with Google Groups.

>> You've  *persistently*  claimed this was incorrect.  I'm now
>> confused by your perspective of what you believe is incorrect
>> both currently and in the past.
>>
>>> The control flow article on wikipedia has a few issues,
>>> but it too disagrees with your narrow formulation.
>>
>> Where or what exactly, in your opinion?
>
> It's a mess with far too many language specific examples.

Yes, every time I attempt to get a reason or explanation
 from you other than a simple proclamation of: "That's wrong!",
without any supportive proof, it never happens.  It's
really confusing at to what you mean if you don't explain.

> I'm OK that I can't explain to your satisfaction,
> since it's not going to make much of a difference.

I don't see this as a matter of explaining to my satisfaction,
but rather you not explaining anything at all, just declaring
what you perceive as incorrectness to be incorrect.


Rod Pemberton

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Thread

Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Aliaksei Chapyzhenka <alex.drom@gmail.com> - 2015-02-05 20:01 -0800
  Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-05 21:00 -0800
    Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-06 02:15 -0500
      Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-06 12:07 -0800
        Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-02-08 22:38 +0000
          Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-08 14:55 -0800
            Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Aliaksei Chapyzhenka <alex.drom@gmail.com> - 2015-02-08 19:59 -0800
  Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-06 13:15 +0000
  Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-02-06 13:22 +0000
    Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Aliaksei Chapyzhenka <alex.drom@gmail.com> - 2015-02-06 11:16 -0800
      Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-06 12:05 -0800
      Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-06 16:44 -0800
        Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-06 23:41 -0500
      Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-06 23:41 -0500
        Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-07 19:22 +0000
          Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Aliaksei Chapyzhenka <alex.drom@gmail.com> - 2015-02-07 13:09 -0800
            Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-07 11:25 -1000
              Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Aliaksei Chapyzhenka <alex.drom@gmail.com> - 2015-02-07 14:09 -0800
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-07 22:32 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Aliaksei Chapyzhenka <alex.drom@gmail.com> - 2015-02-07 14:51 -0800
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-08 00:04 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Aliaksei Chapyzhenka <alex.drom@gmail.com> - 2015-02-07 17:03 -0800
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-07 21:04 -0500
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-07 21:10 -0500
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-08 10:57 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-07 21:05 -0500
            Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-07 22:24 +0000
          Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-07 11:21 -1000
          Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-07 20:11 -0500
            Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-07 15:35 -1000
              Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-07 16:52 -1000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-08 10:21 -0800
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-08 20:09 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-08 17:15 -1000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-09 12:00 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-09 13:05 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-02-10 16:01 +1100
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-09 02:35 -0500
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-09 12:03 +0000
              Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-08 10:13 -0800
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-08 20:21 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-09 22:49 -0800
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-10 12:12 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-10 12:54 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-02-10 06:30 -0800
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-10 14:53 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-10 08:20 -1000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-10 14:33 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-10 19:09 +0000
                Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-02-10 14:29 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-10 15:49 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-10 17:56 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-10 20:53 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-10 13:08 -1000
                Re: Control-flow stack awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2015-02-11 03:15 +0100
                Re: Control-flow stack hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-10 18:47 -0800
                Re: Control-flow stack Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-02-17 07:13 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-02-11 17:59 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-02-11 01:30 -0800
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-10 18:43 -0500
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-02-11 17:46 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-11 22:39 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-11 22:42 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-02-12 09:52 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-12 10:28 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-11 20:23 -0800
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-02-12 07:21 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-12 18:33 -0800
                Re: Control-flow stack awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2015-02-13 04:46 +0100
                Re: Control-flow stack "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-13 06:48 -0500
                Re: Control-flow stack awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2015-02-13 13:40 +0100
                Re: Control-flow stack albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-13 15:49 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2015-02-14 03:47 +0100
                Re: Control-flow stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-02-13 16:09 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-02-13 15:20 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-13 21:31 -0800
                Re: Control-flow stack awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2015-02-14 03:47 +0100
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-14 19:22 -0800
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-02-15 11:09 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-15 16:57 -0800
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-02-16 14:41 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack (was: Static Single Assignment ...) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-16 18:43 -0800
                Re: Control-flow stack Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-02-10 22:04 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack Harold <hzrabbie@gmail.com> - 2015-02-10 16:58 -0800
                Re: Control-flow stack Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-02-11 02:51 +0100
                Re: Control-flow stack albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-11 11:34 +0000
                Re: Control-flow stack Harold <hzrabbie@gmail.com> - 2015-02-11 08:17 -0800
                Re: Control-flow stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-10 16:37 -1000
                Re: Control-flow stack hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-10 18:57 -0800
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-10 18:44 -0500
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-10 14:49 -1000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-02-10 18:16 -0800
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-02-11 00:35 -0800
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-11 09:35 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-02-11 03:06 -0800
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-11 14:27 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-11 14:40 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-12 20:02 -0500
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-13 11:42 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-02-13 07:44 -0500
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-13 14:20 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-02-13 10:32 -1000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-03-29 16:27 -0400
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-29 22:46 +0100
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-03-29 15:24 -1000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-30 04:44 -0700
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-30 15:33 +0100
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-02-11 18:03 +0000
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-02-12 00:16 +0100
                Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-02-12 07:08 +0000
            Re: Static Single Assignment form to Stack allocation "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-02-08 10:51 +0000

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