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Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration.

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Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

>>>>> https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2025/report/ao-2024-038

>>>>> It's time all public transport aircraft had takeoff
>>>>> performance  monitoring, no matter the size.

>>>> That isnt going to result in the problem  being
>>>> fixed quickly enough  to  stop an accident

>>> Well before an abort becomes risky, the system has enough  
>>> informationto  determine whether the crew calculated v1 and vr are  
>>> correct,

>> Bullshit with that incorrect flaps setting.

>>> and whether  the aircraft will be able  toboth continue a takeoff, and  
>>> stop, at v1.

>> Bullshit with that incorrect flaps setting, let alone
>> tell the pilots that the flaps setting is wrong.

>>  It would make much more sense to compare the
>> actual settings with that has been entered at the
>> preflight config calculations and tell the pilots
>> that they have not set what was required with
>> flaps and boost etc before they actually applied
>> takeoff power and not allow takeoff power to be
>> applied before those were set correctly.

>>> It can issue an abort alert if not.

>>  See above

>>> This covers at least miscalculated v1, miscalculated vr, wrong thrust  
>>> settings, wrong flap settings, starting from the wrong intersection,  
>>> takeoff from the wrong runway, and no doubt others that I haven't even  
>>> thought of.

>> It would be stupid to try to measure that while taking off
>> instead of doing that before takeoff power is applied

>> Yes, there is also a different problem with the engines
>> not being able to deliver the power they were assumed
>> to be able to deliver the power they were supposed to
>> be able to deliver in the preflight calculations, but that
>> was not the case in the incident being discussed and
>> it would be much easier to discover than much earlier
>> in the takeoff run than V1 or VR

> The question the system needs to ask is "In the current configuration,  
> with the measured acceleration [*], current airspeed, and current  
> position on the current runway, can the aircraft reach the specified V1  
> at a point where it can continue the takeoff or abort, and will it be  
> able to rotate at the specified Vr.

The problem with that approach is that is far too late
during the takeoff run to be doing that by measurement
when its much too late for the pilots to be fixing what
the problem is, particularly when the engines arent
actually performing the way they were meant to when
the prefight calculations were done

Like I said, it makes much more sense to check that
the pilots have set what they have caculated nees to
be set before takeoff power is allowed to be applied

> [*] This also gives a reasonable estimate of the mass, assuming that the  
> engine thrust is as commanded, or the engine thrust assuming that the  
> mass is as configured, and allows an abort alert if the mass,  
> acceleration, and thrust are not consistent with each other.

Not reasible to measure that during the takeoff run before V1

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Thread

Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-21 13:28 +0800
  Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-23 04:21 +1100
    Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-23 12:50 +0800
      Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-23 20:09 +1100
        Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-24 14:14 +0800
          Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-24 19:21 +1100
            Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-24 21:59 +0800
              Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-25 03:46 +1100
              Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2025-01-25 09:19 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-25 13:17 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-25 19:34 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-25 16:44 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2025-01-25 22:36 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-25 22:12 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2025-01-26 09:36 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-26 10:07 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-26 02:21 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-26 16:29 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-26 20:14 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-27 12:17 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-27 19:52 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-27 16:56 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-28 04:33 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-28 11:52 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-28 15:57 +1100

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