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Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration.

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On 23-Jan-25 5:09 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
> 
>>>> https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2025/report/ao-2024-038
> 
>>>> It's time all public transport aircraft had takeoffperformance  
>>>> monitoring, no matter the size.
> 
>>> That isnt going to result in the problem  beingfixed quickly enough 
>>> to  stop an accident
> 
>> Well before an abort becomes risky, the system has enough 
>> informationto  determine whether the crew calculated v1 and vr are 
>> correct,
> 
> Bullshit with that incorrect flaps setting.
> 
>> and whether  the aircraft will be able  toboth continue a takeoff, and 
>> stop, at v1.
> 
> Bullshit with that incorrect flaps setting, let alone
> tell the pilots that the flaps setting is wrong.

> 
> It would make much more sense to compare the
> actual settings with that has been entered at the
> preflight config calculations and tell the pilots
> that they have not set what was required with
> flaps and boost etc before they actually applied
> takeoff power and not allow takeoff power to be
> applied before those were set correctly.
> 
>> It can issue an abort alert if not.
> 
> See above
> 
>> This covers at least miscalculated v1, miscalculated vr, wrong thrust 
>> settings, wrong flap settings, starting from the wrong intersection, 
>> takeoff from the wrong runway, and no doubt others that I haven't even 
>> thought of.
> 
> It would be stupid to try to measure that while taking off
> instead of doing that before takeoff power is applied
> 
> Yes, there is also a different problem with the engines
> not being able to deliver the power they were assumed
> to be able to deliver the power they were supposed to
> be able to deliver in the preflight calculations, but that
> was not the case in the incident being discussed and
> it would be much easier to discover than much earlier
> in the takeoff run than V1 or VR

The question the system needs to ask is "In the current configuration, 
with the measured acceleration [*], current airspeed, and current 
position on the current runway, can the aircraft reach the specified V1 
at a point where it can continue the takeoff or abort, and will it be 
able to rotate at the specified Vr.

[*] This also gives a reasonable estimate of the mass, assuming that the 
engine thrust is as commanded, or the engine thrust assuming that the 
mass is as configured, and allows an abort alert if the mass, 
acceleration, and thrust are not consistent with each other.

Sylvia.

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Thread

Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-21 13:28 +0800
  Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-23 04:21 +1100
    Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-23 12:50 +0800
      Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-23 20:09 +1100
        Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-24 14:14 +0800
          Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-24 19:21 +1100
            Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-24 21:59 +0800
              Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-25 03:46 +1100
              Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2025-01-25 09:19 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-25 13:17 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-25 19:34 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-25 16:44 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2025-01-25 22:36 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-25 22:12 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2025-01-26 09:36 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-26 10:07 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-26 02:21 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-26 16:29 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-26 20:14 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-27 12:17 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-27 19:52 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-27 16:56 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-28 04:33 +1100
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-28 11:52 +0800
                Re: Dash-8 incorrect takeoff configuration. "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2025-01-28 15:57 +1100

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