Re: Null pointer constant

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Null pointer constant
Date	2017-06-19 12:38 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<oi89cl$t3d$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<UGx1B.379461$m76.337023@fx35.am4> <slrn3vfsokdqhs.r2.ike@iceland.freeshell.org> <jMD1B.215949$gM7.179726@fx44.am4> <oi78on$hu7$1@dont-email.me> <9zM1B.193976$KK7.183000@fx12.am4>

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On 19/06/17 11:11, bartc wrote:
> On 19/06/2017 02:21, David Brown wrote:
>> On 19/06/17 01:11, bartc wrote:
> 
>>> (a?b:c) can be a constant expression, provided a, b and c are constants.
>>>
>>
>> I presume you haven't bothered looking at the standard to see what a
>> "constant expression" actually /is/, in the C standards?  And in
>> particular, you haven't looked at what an "integer constant
>> expression" is?
> 
> The standard says this:
> 
>   "constant-expression:  conditional-expression"
> 
> A condition-expression can be a a?b:c operation.
> 
> But it was hardly necessary to check that, as plenty of programs rely on
> using ?: in constant expressions, including that assert macro of a few
> weeks back which declared an array parameter bound as either 1 or 0.

Yes, and did you also look up "/integer/ constant expression" - the
particular type of constant expression Ike referred to?

> 
>>> But, the restrictions on being able to use 0 as a null pointer
>>> constant only in certain kinds of expressions sound like another quirk.
>>>
>>
>> This is clearly explained in the standards.
> 
> The standard says this:
> 
> 6.3.2.3p3:
> 
>  "An integer constant expression with the value 0, or such an
>   expression cast to type void *, is called a null pointer constant."
> 
> So this term:
> 
>   p == (a,b, 0);
> 
> can be considered to be:
> 
>   p == (a,b, null-pointer-constant);

Correct.

> 
> provided the embedded 0 can be considered an expression. But since:
> 
>   c;
> 
> is clearly an expression, then it is not going to be stop being an
> expression when expanded to:
> 
>   (a, b, c);

Yes.

> 
> Otherwise writing:
> 
>   p = 0;       // int*p
> 
> can't work because, although 0 is a null-pointer-constant, the composite
> assignment will embed the 0 so that it is no longer a
> null-pointer-constant.
> 
> But given that the 0 in (a,b,0) appears to be a null-pointer-constant,
> the machinations required within the rest of the standard to stop that
> being used legally against pointer types is not at all clear.

There is a big difference between (a, b, 0) and (a ? 0 : 0).  In the
first case, you have the comma operator, so the type of the expression
comes entirely from the right hand side.

In the second case, you have a conditional operator.  Look at the rules
in 6.5.15.  There is no option for both the "b" and "c" parts of a?b:c
to be null pointer constants (perhaps because that would be a useless
expression).  The only way to interpret "a ? 0 : 0" to fit the
constraints is to consider both zeros to be ints.  So you are trying to
assign the /int/ value 0 to a pointer, not the null pointer constant.

> 
> (Yes, I understand that for people like you, such things are black and
> white. Provided something is explained somewhere, not matter how thick a
> manual is or how long you have to spend on the internet, then it cannot
> possibly be too complicated or too confusing.)
> 

Of course these things can be complicated.  They are not an issue in
real-world programming, since the examples are totally artificial and
unrealistic.  In this particular case, I had to look up the rules in the
standard to see exactly what was happening.  But the difference between
you and me is that I /do/ look them up, rather than posting complaints
about how hard it all is, or comparing the warning messages from a few
compilers as though that would make the rules clear.  I might still make
mistakes and be corrected here - but at least I /try/ to understand and
to learn.  And since I am /using/ C, that is fine for my purposes.  You
are trying to make a C compiler - you need to know these things
accurately, and get them right.  You need to know the standards inside
out and back to front - they are the specifications for the program you
are writing.  It is, of course, absolutely fine to have questions or
misunderstandings and look for help in clearing them up - but it is not
remotely reasonable for you not to have bothered reading the bits that
are clearly described.

Thread

Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-18 17:15 +0100
  Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-18 11:20 -0700
  Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-18 19:23 +0100
    Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-18 20:57 +0100
      Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-18 13:38 -0700
        Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 04:35 -0700
          Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-19 18:08 +0000
            Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 21:05 -0700
          Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 12:12 -0700
            Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 21:08 -0700
      Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 00:34 +0100
        Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 04:45 -0700
          Re: Null pointer constant David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 13:55 +0200
        Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 13:16 +0100
          Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 16:58 +0100
  Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-18 20:58 +0000
    Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 00:11 +0100
      Re: Null pointer constant David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 03:21 +0200
        Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 10:11 +0100
          Re: Null pointer constant David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 12:38 +0200
            Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 13:05 +0100
              Re: Null pointer constant David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 14:39 +0200
                Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-19 11:06 -0400
                Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-19 15:51 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-19 12:22 -0400
                Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-19 17:29 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-19 13:45 -0400
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 12:31 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-19 15:10 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 16:53 +0100
                Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-19 13:06 -0400
                Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 20:03 +0100
                Re: Null pointer constant David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 22:37 +0200
                Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 22:10 +0100
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 14:25 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 22:46 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-20 08:43 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-20 09:17 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-21 00:56 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-21 10:07 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-21 23:52 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-22 10:12 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-22 17:33 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-23 08:54 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Manfred <invalid@invalid.add> - 2017-06-20 00:00 +0200
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 15:27 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 16:38 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-20 01:14 +0100
                Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-20 12:03 +0100
                Re: Null pointer constant Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2017-06-20 13:16 +0200
                Re: Null pointer constant jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-06-20 05:34 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-20 08:49 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-20 16:35 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-20 13:07 -0400
                Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 17:29 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-20 13:55 -0400
                Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 18:06 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-20 14:42 -0400
                Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 19:10 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-20 18:31 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 18:36 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-20 14:45 -0400
                Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 17:14 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-20 11:55 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 19:23 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-20 15:39 -0400
                Re: Null pointer constant scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-21 13:44 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-21 13:49 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-21 23:57 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2017-06-28 20:04 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-07-10 08:38 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-20 12:39 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-20 20:53 +0100
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-20 13:07 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 20:50 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-20 15:35 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-21 00:26 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-21 09:54 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-21 13:09 -0400
                Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-22 00:53 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-21 18:09 +0100
                Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-22 00:50 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 10:24 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 22:32 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 19:40 +0100
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 12:08 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 20:32 +0100
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 12:48 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-06-19 13:08 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-19 20:40 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 22:01 +0100
                Re: Null pointer constant supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 14:15 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-06-19 14:25 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-19 21:06 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 14:28 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-19 21:35 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 14:48 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-20 15:38 +0000
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 15:16 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 14:29 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 15:18 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 22:48 -0700
                Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-20 15:09 +0100
              Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 10:19 -0700
            Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 10:15 -0700
              Re: Null pointer constant David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 22:44 +0200
            Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 12:24 -0700
      Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-19 08:21 +0000
        Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 10:17 +0100
          Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 10:04 -0700
  Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 12:34 -0700

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