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Groups > comp.lang.c > #112724
| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Null pointer constant |
| Date | 2017-06-20 11:55 -0700 |
| Organization | None to speak of |
| Message-ID | <lnpodycwvb.fsf@kst-u.example.com> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <oi8geb$a5m$1@dont-email.me> <87shiwc4il.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <oi9hi4$1jep$1@gioia.aioe.org> <lnd19zehps.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <slrn3vfsokijst.bel.ike@iceland.freeshell.org> |
Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> writes:
> On 2017-06-19, Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:
>> Manfred <invalid@invalid.add> writes:
>> [...]
>>> This may be true as long as the standard is strictly read (I take your
>>> word for it), but I think there is a big difference in terms of the
>>> rationale behind it:
>>> C is a strongly typed language (less than C++, but more than many other
>>> languages), which means that it has well-defined rules for what is the
>>> type of a constant or expression, and it also has well-defined rules for
>>> how types are converted (cast, either implicitly or explicitly) from one
>>> to another.
>>
>> A terminology quibble: A conversion may be either implicit or explicit.
>> A cast is an explicit conversion. There is no such thing as an implicit
>> cast.
>>
>>> Now, 0 is an exception to this rule, in that it can be /either/ a
>>> integer constant, /or/ a null pointer constant.
>>
>> 0 *is* an integer constant, and it *is* a null pointer constant.
>
> It surely is an /integer constant/ (see 6.4.4.1), but, after having
> been exposed to the wondrous wordings of 6.6p6, one starts to wonder
> whether 0 is a /null pointer constant/. In order to qualify as such, it
> must, at least, qualify as an /integer constant expression/.
>
> Okay, 0 does qualify as a constant expression (it can be derived
> grammatically from a constant-expression (6.6), it evaluates to a
> constant that is in the range of representable values for its type
> (6.6p4)), but the question is whether it only has operands that
> are integer constants etc. (6.6p6).
>
> Does the expression 0 have operands at all? Acording to 6.4.6p2,
> an operand is defined as an entity on which an operator acts.
>
> But the expression 0 does not have an operator, so how can it have
> something on which the nonexisting operator acts?
>
> I'm starting to get confused. I am pretty sure the intention of the
> standard is that 0 is a null pointer constant, but does it follow
> from the words?
An expression can have things other than operands; it can also have
operators (and maybe other things I haven't checked). So as long as all
the operands qualify, even if there are none, it should qualify as an
integer constant expression.
The intent, I think, is quite obvious.
A better worded definition of "constant expression" would apply the
requirements to the "leaf nodes" of the expression, and in particular
to the constant 0 when it's the entire expression. Expressing that
in standardese is left as an exercise for the committee.
But if we look at the definition of "expression" (6.5p1):
An *expression* is a sequence of operators and operands that
specifies computation of a value, or that designates an object
or a function, or that generates side effects, or that performs
a combination thereof.
and take it literally, then 0 isn't even an expression; it has
no operators, and therefore no operands. Again, the intent is
obvious; the wording of the definition IMHO needs to be cleaned up.
(The counterargument to that is that nobody is actually confused
by it; no compiler is going to reject `x = 0;` on the grounds that
`0` isn't an expression.)
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
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Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-18 17:15 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-18 11:20 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-18 19:23 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-18 20:57 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-18 13:38 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 04:35 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-19 18:08 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 21:05 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 12:12 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 21:08 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 00:34 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 04:45 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 13:55 +0200
Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 13:16 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 16:58 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-18 20:58 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 00:11 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 03:21 +0200
Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 10:11 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 12:38 +0200
Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 13:05 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 14:39 +0200
Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-19 11:06 -0400
Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-19 15:51 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-19 12:22 -0400
Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-19 17:29 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-19 13:45 -0400
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 12:31 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-19 15:10 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 16:53 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-19 13:06 -0400
Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 20:03 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 22:37 +0200
Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 22:10 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 14:25 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 22:46 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-20 08:43 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-20 09:17 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-21 00:56 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-21 10:07 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-21 23:52 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-22 10:12 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-22 17:33 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-23 08:54 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Manfred <invalid@invalid.add> - 2017-06-20 00:00 +0200
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 15:27 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 16:38 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-20 01:14 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-20 12:03 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2017-06-20 13:16 +0200
Re: Null pointer constant jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-06-20 05:34 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-20 08:49 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-20 16:35 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-20 13:07 -0400
Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 17:29 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-20 13:55 -0400
Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 18:06 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-20 14:42 -0400
Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 19:10 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-20 18:31 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 18:36 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-20 14:45 -0400
Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 17:14 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-20 11:55 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 19:23 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-20 15:39 -0400
Re: Null pointer constant scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-21 13:44 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-21 13:49 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-21 23:57 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2017-06-28 20:04 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-07-10 08:38 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-20 12:39 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-20 20:53 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-20 13:07 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-20 20:50 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-20 15:35 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-21 00:26 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-21 09:54 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-06-21 13:09 -0400
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-22 00:53 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-21 18:09 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-22 00:50 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 10:24 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 22:32 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 19:40 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 12:08 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 20:32 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 12:48 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-06-19 13:08 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2017-06-19 20:40 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 22:01 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 14:15 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-06-19 14:25 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-19 21:06 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 14:28 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-19 21:35 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 14:48 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-20 15:38 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 15:16 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 14:29 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 15:18 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-19 22:48 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-20 15:09 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 10:19 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 10:15 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 22:44 +0200
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 12:24 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-19 08:21 +0000
Re: Null pointer constant bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 10:17 +0100
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 10:04 -0700
Re: Null pointer constant Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-19 12:34 -0700
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