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Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data
Date 2017-06-16 13:50 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <oi0gfv$85e$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (12 earlier) <1a4c81c8-9af3-4185-9bfe-864aa8590e01@googlegroups.com> <ohuq9a$5fk$1@dont-email.me> <3b604181-d513-4b04-a857-a35bf80b7fda@googlegroups.com> <ohuve0$p7i$1@dont-email.me> <0050c763-b2ea-4327-8e26-3aa800774bc3@googlegroups.com>

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On 16/06/17 00:39, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 4:53:48 PM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
>> On 15/06/17 23:23, supercat wrote:
>> But you are almost right - people used "long" to mean /at least/ 32-bit. 
>>   It is only those who write tightly platform-specific code that assumed 
>> it was always /exactly/ 32-bit.
> 
> A lot of microcomputer code has to interact with APIs that define data
> structures in terms of physical layout.  Perhaps that was less common with
> other kinds of computers, but in the microcomputer realm it was extremely
> common, and it remains common in the embedded systems realm.
> 
> Further, I don't know about things outside the realm of microcomputers, but
> within that realm platforms were extremely similar except for a few key
> parameters (byte order, size of "int", pointer representation, and a few
> details of floating-point operation).  Many other architectural aspects that
> might have varied a lot among other kinds of computers were absolutely
> consistent in the microcomputer realm.

The microcomputer world settled pretty much on these things, yes.

> 
>>> Their code is no worse in that regard than any other code written for
>>> microcomputers prior to C99.
>>
>> People had been writing code that worked on 16-bit, 32-bit and 64-bit 
>> for a good while before that.  64-bit entered the microcomputer 
>> mainstream in the mid 1990's.  (Cray had 64-bit data, but not 64-bit 
>> addresses, in 1976, and MIPS made their first 64-bit cpu in 1991.)  In 
>> the *nix world, C code that is portable between 32-bit and 64-bit 
>> predates C99 quite significantly.
> 
> The DEC Alpha came out in the early 1990s, but would hardly call that
> mainstream.  What were you thinking of as a mainstream 64-bit microcomputer
> platform in the mid 1990s?
> 

Alpha, MIPS, PowerPC, Sparc all had 64-bit versions, and those were the
processors that dominated the *nix workstation and server markets.  The
x86 line as considered a cheap joke, for toys for games and office work
rather than for /real/ computing.  (Yes, there was more than a little
snobbery involved.)

These were all vastly nicer architectures, until Intel and AMD showed
the world that you really /can/ polish a turd, with very powerful
implementations of the mind-numbingly bad x86 architecture, and with the
economics of scale to push the good architectures pretty much out of
business.

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Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 06:14 -0700
  Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 06:18 -0700
    Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 08:00 -0700
      Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 08:06 -0700
    Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-14 20:39 +0100
      Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-14 21:51 +0100
        Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-14 22:25 +0100
          Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-14 14:37 -0700
            Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-15 00:32 +0100
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-14 17:02 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-15 01:34 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-14 20:28 -0500
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-18 10:49 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-14 20:02 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-15 10:29 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-15 10:54 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-15 13:15 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-15 13:51 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-15 16:13 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-15 16:01 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-15 09:27 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-18 10:49 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-16 23:35 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-17 16:10 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-17 19:23 -0700
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-16 13:13 +1200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 18:44 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-16 13:42 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 20:20 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-18 00:32 -0500
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-18 11:06 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 15:26 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-18 14:58 +0100
          Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-15 01:42 +0100
            Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-15 11:52 +0100
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-15 16:07 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-16 23:37 -0700
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-15 09:52 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 10:36 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-15 17:58 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 11:48 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-15 19:01 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 12:29 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-16 13:47 +1200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 19:33 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 13:02 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 13:09 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-15 22:25 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 14:23 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-15 23:53 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 15:39 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-16 13:50 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-16 08:40 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 16:49 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 10:33 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-19 17:50 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 12:12 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-19 19:27 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-20 15:18 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-20 09:30 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 12:05 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-16 12:30 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 16:54 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 13:25 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-20 09:27 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-20 08:53 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-20 22:12 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-20 13:14 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-20 13:16 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-20 14:04 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-21 15:33 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-20 13:25 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-16 19:42 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 16:58 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-17 19:18 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-15 23:40 -0500
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-16 13:51 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-16 12:55 +0000
      Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 14:23 -0700
        Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-16 13:48 +1200
          Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 19:03 -0700
            Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-16 15:12 +1200
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 20:20 -0700
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-16 07:03 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-16 20:01 +1200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-16 19:21 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-16 12:07 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-17 16:18 +1200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-17 07:19 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-17 19:19 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-18 08:29 +1200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-17 18:49 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-18 16:18 +1200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-06-18 06:28 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-16 09:11 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-16 23:37 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 17:04 +0200
            Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-16 12:56 +0000
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 07:10 -0700
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 16:38 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-16 15:02 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 08:11 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 17:13 +0200
      Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-14 14:42 -0700
  Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-14 21:32 +0100
    Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 14:28 -0700

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