Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.c > #112248

Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data
Date 2017-06-15 13:15 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <ohtq14$b41$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <9Ij0B.155016$m76.119451@fx35.am4> <lny3suazjn.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <2Ck0B.72727$O06.58650@fx43.am4> <ohtgac$ch2$1@dont-email.me> <1Ps0B.155401$m76.34278@fx35.am4>

Show all headers | View raw

On 15/06/17 11:54, bartc wrote:
> On 15/06/2017 09:29, David Brown wrote:
>> On 15/06/17 02:34, bartc wrote:
>>> On 15/06/2017 01:02, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>> bartc <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Did you invoke those 5 compilers in a standard-conforming mode?
>>>> If not, your results are meaningless.
>>>
>>> It's 2017. Why should a recent compiler default to compiling a standard
>>> that is nearly 30 years out of date?
>>>
>>
>> Some compilers default to older standards, some to newer standards.
> 
> No, all the ones I've tried seem to default to old standards, or don't
> take certain error conditions seriously. (I've given plenty of examples.)
> 

gcc changed to a default of "gnu11" rather than "gnu89" with version 5
released about 2 years ago.  (Note that the default standard includes
gcc extensions.)  clang currently also has "gnu11" as its default
standard, but I don't know how recent that is.

As for your other compilers, I have no idea.

>> But really, you know all this already.  Why you continue to run
>> compilers in default modes and use the results as though they explain
>> the C standards is a mystery to me.
> 
> The mystery is why modern C compilers default to those modes.
> 
> BTW I don't actually know how to tell any C compiler how to support a
> modern mode, except for gcc. 

Here's an idea.  You could see if the compilers have a /manual/, or some
sort of documentation.  Maybe that will tell you?

As an alternative, you could also try a web search.

Or, of course, you could boast about your wilful ignorance in a public
newsgroup.

> And even there, if I use -std=c11 on:
> 
> 
>  int main(void) {
>     issspace(0,0,0,0);
>     isspace("abcd");
>  }
> 
> I only get a warning about implicit declarations, on what is obviously
> an error. So what do you suggest, going through the hundreds of possibly
> warnings, and add hundreds of options to turn those into errors? Or
> having a single option to turn EVERY warning into an error? Apart from
> not knowing that that is, that sounds a bad idea.

I suggest you learn to use your compilers, and also that you learn what
compilers actually /do/ and what they are used for.

There is no point in anyone giving you suggestions of flags here - it
has been done before, and you will ignore them or forget them within
seconds.

> 
> With Tiny C, it doesn't appear to have such an option. That said nothing
> at all.

Hey, imagine that - a C compiler that is designed to be as small and
simple as possible has fewer features than a big and comprehensive one.

> 
> With DMC, I couldn't see such an option either (only -A for strict
> ANSI). That's quite an old compiler, but still released 5 years after
> 1999. That said nothing at all about this code.
> 
> With Pelles C, it's /std:{C11}, but it says that is the default mode.
> Yet it gives only warnings.
> 
> With lccwin64, I couldn't figure out how to show all the options. With
> lccwin32, there is an option -ansic90 which disables C99, so it sounds
> like the latter is already the default. Yet it still gives warnings only.
> 
> With MSVC, I can only use that from inside Visual Studio, so don't want
> to spend all morning figuring what the options are and how to set them.
> But I would be surprised if such a modern compiler (used from VS2017)
> disabled C99 and C11 features.

Yes, MSVC is famous for its solid and timely support for C99 and C11.
/Really/ famous.

> 
> So a newcomer using one of these compilers, even with an explicit
> standards option, will not see anything particular untoward about the
> above code.
> 
> Even if applied to correct code, such is isspace('A'), they will see the
> same message, and the program will still work. The impression is that
> this doesn't really matter.
> 
>

Back to comp.lang.c | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 06:14 -0700
  Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 06:18 -0700
    Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 08:00 -0700
      Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 08:06 -0700
    Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-14 20:39 +0100
      Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-14 21:51 +0100
        Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-14 22:25 +0100
          Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-14 14:37 -0700
            Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-15 00:32 +0100
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-14 17:02 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-15 01:34 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-14 20:28 -0500
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-18 10:49 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-14 20:02 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-15 10:29 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-15 10:54 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-15 13:15 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-15 13:51 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-15 16:13 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-15 16:01 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-15 09:27 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-18 10:49 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-16 23:35 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-17 16:10 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-17 19:23 -0700
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-16 13:13 +1200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 18:44 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-16 13:42 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 20:20 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-18 00:32 -0500
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-18 11:06 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 15:26 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-18 14:58 +0100
          Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-15 01:42 +0100
            Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-15 11:52 +0100
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-15 16:07 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-16 23:37 -0700
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-15 09:52 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 10:36 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-15 17:58 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 11:48 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-15 19:01 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 12:29 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-16 13:47 +1200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 19:33 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 13:02 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 13:09 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-15 22:25 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 14:23 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-15 23:53 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-15 15:39 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-16 13:50 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-16 08:40 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 16:49 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 10:33 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-19 17:50 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 12:12 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-19 19:27 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-06-20 15:18 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-20 09:30 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 12:05 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-16 12:30 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 16:54 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-19 13:25 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-20 09:27 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-20 08:53 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-20 22:12 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-20 13:14 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-20 13:16 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-20 14:04 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-21 15:33 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-20 13:25 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-16 19:42 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 16:58 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-17 19:18 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-15 23:40 -0500
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-16 13:51 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-16 12:55 +0000
      Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 14:23 -0700
        Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-16 13:48 +1200
          Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 19:03 -0700
            Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-16 15:12 +1200
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 20:20 -0700
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-16 07:03 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-16 20:01 +1200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-16 19:21 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-16 12:07 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-17 16:18 +1200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-06-17 07:19 +0100
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-17 19:19 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-18 08:29 +1200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-17 18:49 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-18 16:18 +1200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-06-18 06:28 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-16 09:11 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-16 23:37 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 17:04 +0200
            Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-16 12:56 +0000
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 07:10 -0700
              Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 16:38 +0200
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-06-16 15:02 +0000
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 08:11 -0700
                Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 17:13 +0200
      Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-14 14:42 -0700
  Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-14 21:32 +0100
    Re: Type system protocols rest atop fundamental data "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 14:28 -0700

csiph-web