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Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places

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On 5/30/2017 12:43 PM, John Robertson wrote:
> On 2017/05/29 7:05 PM, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 10:35:33 AM UTC+10, Jamie M wrote:
>>> On 5/29/2017 2:24 PM, John Robertson wrote:
>>>> On 2017/05/29 12:56 PM, Jamie M wrote:
>>>>> On 5/29/2017 9:24 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>>>>>> Den mandag den 29. maj 2017 kl. 18.05.22 UTC+2 skrev Jamie M:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here are a couple studies showing the danger of vaccines related to
>>>>>>> causing heart disease.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16780845
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26122188
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so if vaccines keep you from dying young you might eventually die of
>>>>>> a heart attack ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Close, I'd say:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Vaccines increase your chance of dying young and increase your chance
>>>>> of eventually dying of a heart attack."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, read up on the risks of the diseases the vaccinations prevented. 1
>>>> in twenty kids getting measles get pneumonia.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html
>>>>
>>>> Mumps:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cdc.gov/mumps/about/complications.html
>>>>
>>>> Mumps can occasionally cause complications, especially in adults.
>>>>
>>>> Complications include:
>>>>
>>>>       inflammation of the testicles (orchitis) in males who have 
>>>> reached
>>>> puberty; rarely does this lead to fertility problems
>>>>       inflammation of the brain (encephalitis)
>>>>       inflammation of the tissue covering the brain and spinal cord
>>>> (meningitis)
>>>>       inflammation of the ovaries (oophoritis) and/or breast tissue
>>>> (mastitis)
>>>>       deafness
>>>>
>>>> An ACCURATE assessment of risks would be beneficial, at this time the
>>>> evidence I see indicates that vaccinations save far more lives than are
>>>> put at risk from later complications.
>>>>
>>>> It was interesting to see the research that exposure to childhood
>>>> diseases can reduce risk of later complications - makes sense that
>>>> stressing the body is good for health. I will be following this topic
>>>> with interest.
>>>>
>>>> I have been vaccinated and my ex-wife & I vaccinated our children, and
>>>> they are vaccinating their child(ren).
>>>
>>> What do you think about vaccines being mandatory in some places though?
>>
>> If it forces idiots like you to get vaccinated, and get you kids 
>> vaccinated, it has to be a good thing. Herd immunity depends on having 
>> something like 95% of the herd immune (though the exact level depends 
>> on the mechanics of contagation), and 5% of the population is crazy 
>> enough to need psychiatric care at some stage.
>>
>>>    If there is evidence (like from the linked studies) that they cause
>>> heart disease or other problems.
>>
>> Then the question is how much heart disease, and by what mechanism.
>>>
>>> "The risk for acute coronary events decreased significantly with
>>> increasing number of childhood contagious diseases (p=0.007)."
>>
>> Correlation isn't causation. Stronger kids survive childhood 
>> contagious diseases, weaker kids don't. Perhaps the weaker kids were 
>> more likely to get heart disease. Or is could be that more of 
>> vaccinated kids survived to can age when they could get heart disease.
>>
>>> "Protection from infections usually suffered during the childhood before
>>> the era of MMR vaccination may predispose the individual to CHD"
>>
>> That is one way of looking at it. If allowing the patient to survive 
>> long enough to exhibit coronary heart diseases counts as 
>> "predisposition" it might even be true, but it's a truly rotten 
>> argument against vaccination.
>>
>> Playing Russian Roulete does make it less likely that you will die of 
>> coronary heart disease, but that doesn't make it a sensible health 
>> choice.
>>
> 
> Extending Bill's points, what was the average life expectancy prior to 
> the introduction of vaccines, and what is it today? We all have to die 
> of something.
> 
> Case closed.
> 
> John

Hi,

Extending Bill's points is a flawed premise.

cheers,
Jamie

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OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-29 09:05 -0700
  Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-29 09:24 -0700
    Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-29 12:56 -0700
      Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-05-29 14:22 -0700
        Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-29 17:32 -0700
          Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-29 18:25 -0700
      Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-05-29 14:24 -0700
        Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-29 17:35 -0700
          Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-29 19:05 -0700
            Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-05-30 12:43 -0700
              Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-30 13:16 -0700
                Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-05-30 14:35 -0700
                Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-30 19:19 -0700
            Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-05-31 13:35 +0100
      Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-29 18:13 -0700
  Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-29 18:09 -0700
  Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-30 11:35 -0700
    Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-30 12:11 -0700
      Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-30 19:19 -0700
      Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-05-31 07:14 -0700
        Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-31 21:31 -0700
          Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 09:32 -0700
            Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> - 2017-06-02 10:49 -0700
              Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-06-02 22:08 +0100
                Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> - 2017-06-05 13:45 -0700
                Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-06-05 19:24 -0700
              Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-06-02 18:46 -0700
  Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-05-31 12:47 +1000
    Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> - 2017-05-31 21:50 -0700
      Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-06-01 15:01 +1000
        Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> - 2017-06-02 10:59 -0700
          Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-06-02 18:40 -0700
      Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-06-01 13:10 +0800
      Re: OT vaccines cause heart disease and are mandatory in some places bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-06-01 01:07 -0700

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