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Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #26515
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.arch.embedded |
| Subject | Re: QF72 story - wow |
| Date | 2017-05-15 16:48 +0200 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <ofceti$61u$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | <bIXRA.15251$Qg.1926@fx14.iad> <ofc8rq$g1i$1@dont-email.me> <ofcbvl$r02$1@dont-email.me> |
On 15/05/17 15:58, Reinhardt Behm wrote: > AT Monday 15 May 2017 21:05, Dimiter_Popoff wrote: > >> On 14.5.2017 г. 15:03, Clifford Heath wrote: >>> This story is a doozy. >>> <http://www.smh.com.au/good-weekend/the-untold-story-of-qf72-what- > happens-when-psycho-automation-leaves-pilots-powerless-20170510-gw26ae.html> >>> >> >> Interesting reading, I read almost the whole article. If I start >> commenting on the quality of the software they mut have on these planes >> I'll go into a rant predictable to all seasoned group members so >> I won't. >> >> But I am amazed that - as the article states - the board computer >> on these planes has priority over the pilots. This is not a bug, it >> is an error at the product concept level... If it is true of course, >> I still have difficulties believing that. The fact they did manage >> to gain some manual control hints towards "not quite true". > > I am doing airborne software myself. > You are correct. It is not a bug, it is a serious error of the requirements. > Software has to be written according to requirements and this is verified > (DO-178). If the sys-reqs are erroneous the software is also incorrect. > What about that case of a plane crash because the pilot intentionally crashed it (as far as they could figure out afterwards, anyway)? He was mentally unstable and drove the plane into a mountain. If the onboard computers had had priority over the pilot in that case, there would have been no crash. It is far from easy to say who or what is most reliable in cases like this, and who or what should have priority. Automated systems can (if designed properly) be safer and more stable than humans - but on the other hand, humans are better at handling unexpected situations. However, I thought that critical flight systems were made in triplicate, and if one goes bananas it gets outvoted, and the other two run the plane? Did that not happen here? > Similar to the crash of an Airbus in Warsaw. In that case it was an > interlock that prevented the thrust reversal when not both wheels see > weight-on-wheel. The landing happened with extreme side wind keeping one > side slightly lifted. Thus thrust reversal was blocked and the plane ran > past the runway and crashed into the ground, killing most passengers. > This interlock had been implemented after a Lauda Air crashed in south east > Asia because the thrust reversal was activated in mid air. > This is why you normally have reviews of system requirements and for every > change you have to perform an impact analysis to prevent such oversights. >
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QF72 story - wow Clifford Heath <clifford.heath@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 22:03 +1000
Re: QF72 story - wow BM2335 <BM265@DMM.com.au> - 2017-05-15 12:25 +0800
Re: QF72 story - wow Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2017-05-15 16:05 +0300
Re: QF72 story - wow Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-05-15 21:58 +0800
Re: QF72 story - wow David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-05-15 16:48 +0200
Re: QF72 story - wow Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-05-15 23:34 +0800
Re: QF72 story - wow Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 18:00 +0100
Re: QF72 story - wow Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 17:49 -0500
Re: QF72 story - wow David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-05-16 09:06 +0200
Re: QF72 story - wow upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-16 19:46 +0300
Re: QF72 story - wow rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 10:41 -0400
Re: QF72 story - wow Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-05-17 23:13 +0800
Re: QF72 story - wow rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 11:54 -0400
Re: QF72 story - wow Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2017-05-17 21:43 +0300
Re: QF72 story - wow rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 16:03 -0400
Re: QF72 story - wow Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2017-05-18 00:27 +0300
Re: QF72 story - wow rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 19:56 -0400
Re: QF72 story - wow upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-16 19:30 +0300
Re: QF72 story - wow Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 23:05 -0500
Re: QF72 story - wow Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-05-17 23:05 +0800
Re: QF72 story - wow rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 10:25 -0400
Re: QF72 story - wow Przemek Klosowski <przemek@tux.dot.org> - 2017-05-18 12:45 +0000
Re: QF72 story - wow upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-16 19:10 +0300
Re: QF72 story - wow Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2017-05-16 19:48 +0300
Re: QF72 story - wow lasselangwadtchristensen@gmail.com - 2017-05-19 17:40 -0700
Re: QF72 story - wow Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-05-15 12:34 -0500
Re: QF72 story - wow Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 17:21 -0500
Re: QF72 story - wow rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 10:47 -0400
Re: QF72 story - wow Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-05-17 10:31 +0100
Re: QF72 story - wow Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-05-17 22:20 +0800
Re: QF72 story - wow rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 10:36 -0400
Re: QF72 story - wow George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-05-15 17:28 -0400
Re: QF72 story - wow Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 17:22 -0500
Re: QF72 story - wow Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2017-05-16 10:51 +0300
Re: QF72 story - wow Clifford Heath <clifford.heath@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 18:01 +1000
Re: QF72 story - wow upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-16 18:54 +0300
Re: QF72 story - wow Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 23:23 -0500
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