Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard?

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard?
Date	2017-02-28 19:15 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<o953np$hd8$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <76716195-c67a-466d-912d-06dab1eb8046@googlegroups.com> <o91to1$59m$2@dont-email.me> <6b69f6d7-ceb6-4fc7-b647-d94d174397d3@googlegroups.com> <o921df$lmj$1@dont-email.me> <2017Feb28.100259@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

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On 2/28/2017 4:02 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> In Linux it is not uncommon to use
>> key mapping that swaps Delete and Backspace.
>
> Swapping is unusual.  I find that my <Backspace> key produces a DEL
> character, and my <Del> key produces an Escape sequence.

The first time I used Linux professionally there were programs that 
drove me nuts because the keys were swapped.  This was not a system wide 
thing, it was different for different programs.  I was told it had to do 
with the initialization of the window which it would appear is unique 
for each program run.

Your example above shows what would be considered non-standard in many 
apps.  A backspace key normally is considered to generate a cntl-H 
character.  Why on earth does it make sense to produce a DEL (delete)?

>> I don't know why these key remappings are not uncommon under Unix.
>
> My guess is that there were terminals where <Backspace> produced BS
> and there were terminals where it produced DEL.

Terminals???  You mean separate hardware connected over a serial port? 
I've never seen one that sent anything other than a cntl-H from the 
backspace key and a DEL from the delete key (if it had one).

> Standardizing that
> functionality properly was too hard (or they were not brave enough to
> do it), so they put the burden on the application programmers to make
> their programs work with both setups (often by making the program
> configurable), and on the users to actually configure the configurable
> programs consistently.  I had problems with that for a long time, but
> have not had it in the last 15 years or so; looking at my config
> files, it looks like the default setup now works consistently (and I
> removed most of the non-default configurations at some point).

The swapping was *not* done in the program.  I believe it was in the 
terminal settings of the window the program was running in.

> The lesson for Forth standardization: For many issues where there is a
> question of how to deal with it (especially for things where equally
> valid solutions exist), there is the suggestion to make the issue
> configurable in the standard, so that someone else (Who?  The
> application programmer?  The end user?) can choose the solution he
> prefers.  The configurable backspace key shows that this approach only
> leads to a mess.
>
> - anton
>

-- 

Rick C

Thread

Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 01:51 -0800
  Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 02:35 -0800
    Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 02:46 -0800
      Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-27 17:38 +0000
      Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 14:12 -0500
    Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 04:42 -0800
    Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 08:58 -0800
      Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 14:15 -0500
        Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 11:51 -0800
          Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 15:17 -0500
            Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-28 09:02 +0000
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 19:15 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-03-01 02:23 +0100
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 20:57 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-03-01 13:24 +0100
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:23 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-01 08:50 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-01 10:04 -0600
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:51 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 13:00 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-02 15:34 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-01 18:09 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:55 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 21:28 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 22:23 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-02 00:21 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-02 01:01 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-02 01:30 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-02 01:46 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-02 02:41 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-02 11:01 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-01 13:48 -0800
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-04 04:02 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-04 12:29 +0000
            Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 03:24 -0800
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 04:14 -0800
      Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 21:50 +0100
        Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 13:48 -0800
          Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 17:41 -0500
            Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 15:07 -0800
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 19:03 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 23:10 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 03:29 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 01:28 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-28 09:58 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 02:37 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-28 12:46 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 05:01 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-28 12:46 +0100
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 03:52 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 04:10 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 05:48 -0800
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-28 10:07 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 02:42 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 02:44 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 12:13 +0100
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 05:10 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-02-28 12:12 +0000
        Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 13:51 -0800
  Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-27 15:38 +0000
    Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 10:13 -0800
      Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 11:15 -0800
      Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-03 12:04 -0800
        Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-03 17:30 -0500
          Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-03 23:13 +0000
            Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-03 18:02 -0600
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-04 01:12 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-03 19:12 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-03 19:23 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-05 18:45 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-05 18:54 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-05 20:47 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-06 09:20 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-06 05:04 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-06 14:07 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-06 06:36 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-06 15:04 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-07 07:38 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-07 07:56 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-07 08:07 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-07 08:37 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-08 15:41 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-09 01:13 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-09 13:03 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? julian.fondren@endurance.com - 2017-03-07 08:36 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-03-07 19:02 +0100
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? alex@rivadpm.com - 2017-03-08 06:08 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-09 00:46 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-09 12:39 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-09 12:42 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-09 23:13 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-08 14:34 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-08 15:33 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-08 15:45 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-08 22:48 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-06 09:28 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-06 05:22 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-06 14:25 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-06 06:46 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-06 15:43 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-06 09:55 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-06 11:04 -0600
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-07 07:44 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-07 10:50 -0600
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-03-08 11:30 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-08 13:37 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-08 14:14 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-03-08 15:16 +0100
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-03-08 16:14 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-03-08 14:49 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 10:57 -0500
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-05 18:22 -0800
          Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-04 10:48 -0800
            Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-04 21:00 -0500
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-05 02:24 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-05 16:44 -0500
            Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-04 20:02 -0800
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-04 23:34 -0500
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-05 02:38 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-05 16:55 -0500
    Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-27 21:24 +0100

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