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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #55293

Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard?

From anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard?
Date 2017-03-01 08:50 +0000
Organization Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID <2017Mar1.095004@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References <77617cde-2fa9-45f9-8b91-8c95e1a2416d@googlegroups.com> <o921df$lmj$1@dont-email.me> <2017Feb28.100259@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <o953np$hd8$1@dont-email.me> <o957qb$3ik$1@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl>

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albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
>It is the difference between a paper tty and a glass tty.
>Paper tty's had backspace keys, like typewriters in order to be
>able to type twice (to get bold), or go back and overstrike to
>get special effects, or to overstrike with more force to correct.

In particular, on a (paper) teletype there was no way to erase
something that was already printed.

The ASCII code DEL (all bits set) comes from paper tape and card
punchers: If you mistyped, you typed DEL, and it would punch across
the mistyped character, and the character would be overwritten by DEL.
When reading the card/tape, any encountered DEL would be ignored.

In glass ttys you could really delete, but not overstrike (at least
not in general), so both ASCII codes were free for new (although
related) meanings.

Interestingly, looking at the VT100 keyboard, it had a Backspace key
at approximately the current position, but in between two other keys,
and a Delete key to the right of the upper part of the Return key
(where the "\" key is on a modern US-layout keyboard).

My guess is that the VT100 sent BS when you typed BS, and DEL when you
typed Delete, and various programs assigned different functions to
these codes.

Then we got the VT220 keyboard (LK201), which was pretty close to a
modern PC keyboard (except that it's Return key is more like on a
GB-layout PC keyboard), with a <x| key where the PC keyboard has the
Backspace key, and a Select key where a PC keyboard has Delete, and an
"F12 (BS)" key.  The <x| key apparently produced DEL, and that's why
the Linux console (according to
<http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard/keyboard.html>) set up Backspace to
produce DEL and, in modern Linux distributions, xterm and other X
applications do the same by default.  Supposedly the VT220 sent an
escape sequence when the Delete key was pressed, but I don't see a
Delete key on the VT220 keyboards I find in the WWW.

Some more info can be found on
<http://www.kermitproject.org/backspace.html>.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/

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Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 01:51 -0800
  Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 02:35 -0800
    Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 02:46 -0800
      Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-27 17:38 +0000
      Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 14:12 -0500
    Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 04:42 -0800
    Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 08:58 -0800
      Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 14:15 -0500
        Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 11:51 -0800
          Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 15:17 -0500
            Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-28 09:02 +0000
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 19:15 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-03-01 02:23 +0100
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 20:57 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-03-01 13:24 +0100
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:23 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-01 08:50 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-01 10:04 -0600
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:51 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 13:00 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-02 15:34 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-01 18:09 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:55 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 21:28 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 22:23 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-02 00:21 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-02 01:01 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-02 01:30 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-02 01:46 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-02 02:41 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-02 11:01 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-01 13:48 -0800
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-04 04:02 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-04 12:29 +0000
            Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 03:24 -0800
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 04:14 -0800
      Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 21:50 +0100
        Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 13:48 -0800
          Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 17:41 -0500
            Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 15:07 -0800
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 19:03 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 23:10 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 03:29 -0500
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 01:28 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-28 09:58 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 02:37 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-28 12:46 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 05:01 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-28 12:46 +0100
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 03:52 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 04:10 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 05:48 -0800
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-28 10:07 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 02:42 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 02:44 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 12:13 +0100
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 05:10 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-02-28 12:12 +0000
        Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 13:51 -0800
  Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-27 15:38 +0000
    Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 10:13 -0800
      Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 11:15 -0800
      Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-03 12:04 -0800
        Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-03 17:30 -0500
          Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-03 23:13 +0000
            Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-03 18:02 -0600
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-04 01:12 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-03 19:12 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-03 19:23 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-05 18:45 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-05 18:54 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-05 20:47 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-06 09:20 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-06 05:04 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-06 14:07 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-06 06:36 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-06 15:04 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-07 07:38 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-07 07:56 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-07 08:07 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-07 08:37 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-08 15:41 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-09 01:13 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-09 13:03 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? julian.fondren@endurance.com - 2017-03-07 08:36 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-03-07 19:02 +0100
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? alex@rivadpm.com - 2017-03-08 06:08 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-09 00:46 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-09 12:39 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-09 12:42 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-09 23:13 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-08 14:34 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-08 15:33 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-08 15:45 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-08 22:48 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-06 09:28 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-06 05:22 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-06 14:25 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-06 06:46 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-06 15:43 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-06 09:55 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-06 11:04 -0600
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-07 07:44 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-07 10:50 -0600
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-03-08 11:30 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-08 13:37 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-08 14:14 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-03-08 15:16 +0100
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-03-08 16:14 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-03-08 14:49 +0000
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 10:57 -0500
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-05 18:22 -0800
          Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-04 10:48 -0800
            Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-04 21:00 -0500
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-05 02:24 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-05 16:44 -0500
            Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-04 20:02 -0800
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-04 23:34 -0500
              Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-05 02:38 -0800
                Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-05 16:55 -0500
    Re: Is GForth KEY really ANS Forth standard? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-27 21:24 +0100

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