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Groups > comp.lang.c > #103637

Re: Is 'extern' necessary?

From BartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Is 'extern' necessary?
Date 2017-02-10 22:56 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <o7lgcf$e16$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <lnd1eqvtl6.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <o7l1ci$l0t$1@dont-email.me> <ln60khx0y2.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <o7l7no$eu4$1@dont-email.me> <lnwpcxvisr.fsf@kst-u.example.com>

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On 10/02/2017 21:26, Keith Thompson wrote:
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> On 10/02/2017 20:09, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>> On 10/02/2017 17:33, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>>>> I've been trying to find out what the point of 'extern' is.
>>>>>
>>>>> N1570 6.9.2, tentative definitions.
>>>>
>>>> It mentions 'external definition'. What does that mean?
>>>
>>> The title of section 6.9 is "External definitions".  The definition of
>>> the term is in paragraph 5.
>>
>> That defines it in terms of 'external declaration'!
>
> Paragraph 4.
>
> Does your PDF reader not have a search function?

I'm sure it must be easier to just answer my original question than just 
keep on posting clues in some treasure hunt that doesn't appear to lead 
anywhere!

Looking for the whole word 'extern' gives me 44 instances of which the 
15th, in a comment for example code, contains the phrase: "... file 
scope declaration with extern creates an external definition.". Well, 
that's cleared up one point then. Although a simple Yes or No would have 
done too.

But that was about external declarations which lead on from external 
definitions which lead on from tentative definitions which lead on from 
my question, which was the point of using extern.

At the minute, I still haven't the foggiest what a tentative definition 
is when it's at home. The Standard says this:

"A declaration of an identifier for an object that has file scope 
without an initializer, and without a storage-class specifier or with 
the storage-class specifier static, constitutes a tentative definition."

Which is as clear as mud.

However it doesn't matter for now because I know enough of how it 
necessarily has to function, and how it's used in practice, to implement 
something that works (in being able to parse code and deduce what the 
intended linkage of anything is). That can be tweaked later as and when 
needed.

(Perhaps some might like to test their skills at working out what these 
definitions are supposed to mean. Take this selection:

   int A[];
   int A[3];
   int A[3]={10,20,30};
   extern int A[];
   extern int A[3];
   extern int A[3]={10,20,30};
   static int A[];
   static int A[3];
   static int A[3]={10,20,30};

Choose one at random, and work out whether it's a Local, Exported or 
Imported object. Then choose another at random (it could be the same 
one), and see how that combines with the first: whether it's legal or 
how the attribute of A changes. And you can continue the game with 
further selections (the same game C compilers have to play).

Perhaps try it with the first declaration at file-scope, and the second 
in a block scope, or both in the same block scope.

Now you may want to compare how C works with a certain other language 
with the same aims. There, A can only be declared in its home module and 
in one of these two forms:

         [3]int A = (10,20,30)   # Defined locally, not exported

  global [3]int A = (10,20,30)   # Defined locally, exported

Any redeclarations are illegal. No explicit declaration of A is 
necessary in a module that imports this one.

See how simple it can be? I've used several schemes all simpler than C's.)

-- 
Bartc

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Thread

Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-10 17:16 +0000
  Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-10 09:33 -0800
    Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-10 18:41 +0000
      Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-10 12:09 -0800
        Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-10 20:29 +0000
          Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-10 13:26 -0800
            Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-10 22:56 +0000
              Re: Is 'extern' necessary? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-10 20:19 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-11 09:53 -0500
              Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-13 05:19 -0800
      Re: Is 'extern' necessary? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-10 12:09 -0800
        Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-10 20:50 +0000
          Re: Is 'extern' necessary? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-10 13:09 -0800
          Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-10 13:33 -0800
          Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-10 23:23 +0000
            Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-10 23:35 +0000
              Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-11 00:34 +0000
            Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-13 12:41 +0100
              Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-13 13:14 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-13 14:05 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-13 07:49 -0800
          Re: Is 'extern' necessary? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-10 19:33 -0800
            Re: Is 'extern' necessary? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-11 09:41 -0800
              Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-11 10:19 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-11 13:39 -0500
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-12 10:10 -0800
      Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-10 14:59 -0800
      Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-13 12:33 +0100
  Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-10 09:35 -0800
    Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-10 12:12 -0800
  Re: Is 'extern' necessary? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-10 10:38 -0800
  Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-10 21:10 +0000
    Re: Is 'extern' necessary? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-10 13:25 -0800
  Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-10 14:53 -0800
    Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-10 15:06 -0800
    Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-10 23:24 +0000
      Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 12:34 +1300
        Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-13 13:14 +0100
          Re: Is 'extern' necessary? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 13:44 +0100
            Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-13 14:13 +0000
            Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-13 15:16 +0100
              Re: Is 'extern' necessary? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 17:24 +0100
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-13 14:24 -0500
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-13 23:29 +0100
            Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-13 11:06 -0800
            Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-13 11:15 -0800
          Re: Is 'extern' necessary? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-13 11:48 -0500
            Re: Is 'extern' necessary? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-13 09:03 -0800
            Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-13 23:37 +0100
      Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-10 15:40 -0800
      Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-13 05:09 -0800
        Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-13 13:46 +0000
          Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-13 09:52 -0800
            Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-13 19:19 +0000
              Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-13 11:34 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-13 20:13 +0000
              Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-13 13:11 -0800
              Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-14 00:33 +0100
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-14 01:02 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-14 09:28 +0100
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-14 03:31 -0600
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-14 11:42 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-14 13:29 +0100
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-14 05:16 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-14 14:51 +0100
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-14 07:24 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-14 21:35 +0100
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-14 15:53 -0500
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-15 09:31 +0100
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-15 11:36 -0500
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-15 09:12 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-15 12:58 -0500
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-15 10:01 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-15 10:55 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-15 11:42 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-15 12:28 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-15 13:58 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-14 08:54 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-14 08:51 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-14 17:32 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:45 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-14 21:38 +0100
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-14 23:26 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-14 16:33 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 00:47 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-02-14 18:17 +0100
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-14 09:47 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-14 18:36 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-14 11:20 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-14 11:42 -0800
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-14 20:22 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-14 17:58 -0600
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 01:29 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-16 05:02 -0600
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-16 11:38 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-16 14:37 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-16 15:43 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-16 16:08 +0000
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 18:42 +0100
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-15 09:47 +0100
                Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-16 05:05 -0600
          Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-15 16:53 -0800
    Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-10 23:55 +0000
  Re: Is 'extern' necessary? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-02-10 19:24 -0600
  Re: Is 'extern' necessary? void <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 03:17 -0800

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