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Re: Particle physics

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Particle physics
Date 2016-10-06 17:11 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <nt6i63$195u$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (19 earlier) <e203a7be-557f-470e-8b35-edf7ceb6d5d6@googlegroups.com> <nt62uj$btv$2@gioia.aioe.org> <dceacb42-750d-49f2-a52f-59b71ea2bf2a@googlegroups.com> <nt6etf$13a9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <nt6gdv$k0f$1@dont-email.me>

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On 10/6/2016 4:41 PM, Poutnik wrote:
> Dne 06/10/2016 v 23:15 Odd Bodkin napsal(a):
>> On 10/6/2016 2:59 PM, john wrote:
>>> Exactly, Odd.
>>> QM has zero predictive power.
>>
>> Bullshit, John. Where the fuck did you get that idea?
>>
>>>
>>> Predictions are stuff like,
>>> Jupiter has a crust,
>>> and
>>> galaxies precess.
>>
>> I don't think you know what a scientific prediction is, John.
>>
>> Newton's gravity telling people exactly WHERE (quantitative azimuth and
>> altitude) to find the previously unobserved planet Neptune was a
>> prediction.
>>
>> Pauli and Fermi predicting the existence of a neutrino, and that if you
>> have a source like a nuclear reactor that should produce the neutrinos
>> (if they exist) at a rate of 50 trillion neutrinos per second per square
>> centimeter, and that flux is impinging on 200 liters of water, then you
>> should see about 3 neutrino+proton interactions per hour -- that's a
>> prediction.
>>
>> Gell-Mann predicting that if the quark model is correct, then you should
>> see a particle (not yet found) with mass about 1680 MeV, with specified
>> lifetime and decay products, which was later found exactly where
>> predicted -- that's a prediction.
>>
>> Einstein predicting exactly HOW MUCH that light will be red-shifted if
>> it is radiated from the ground and detected 22.6 meters higher in the
>> Earth's gravitational field, and that being exactly the amount of shift
>> seen at the Jefferson Lab when experimenters set it up -- that's a
>> prediction.
>>
>
> Hm, AFAIK, scientific prediction is not ( only ) foretelling,
> but generally it says what should be observed
> (qualitatively or quantitatively ),
> regardless of if it was observed already/known or not yet.
>
> If predictions of already known observations fails,
> something is wrong.
>

Matching with previously known data is critically important but is AFAIK 
called postdiction. Any model that only does postdiction but cannot do 
any prediction is really in the category of a data-fitting exercise and 
not really a theory that shows deeper understanding. A theory that makes 
progress in understanding necessarily makes new predictions for 
observations that have not yet been made.

I'll note that many of John's "models" are already in conflict with 
existing data -- that is, they say things should be some way that 
measurements already say they are not -- but John doesn't really care.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Thread

Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 15:52 -0500
  Re: Particle physics Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-02 00:09 +0200
    Re: Particle physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 07:33 +0200
      Re: Particle physics poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 08:44 -0700
      Re: Particle physics Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-05 10:15 +0200
        Re: Particle physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-05 17:14 +0200
          Re: Particle physics Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-05 17:21 +0200
            Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-05 09:03 -0700
              Re: Particle physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-05 19:43 +0200
              Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-05 13:12 -0500
                Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-05 18:04 -0700
                Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 09:00 -0500
                Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 07:20 -0700
                Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 09:49 -0500
                Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 08:11 -0700
                Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 10:41 -0500
                Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 09:21 -0700
                Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 11:43 -0500
                Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 10:25 -0700
                Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 12:51 -0500
                Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 12:59 -0700
                Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 16:15 -0500
                Re: Particle physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 23:41 +0200
                Re: Particle physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 23:45 +0200
                Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 17:11 -0500
                Re: Particle physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 07:14 +0200
                Re: Particle physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 07:20 +0200
                Re: Particle physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 07:59 +0200
                Re: Particle physics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-10-07 00:50 +0000
                Re: Particle physics edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-13 07:47 -0700
                Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 08:18 -0700
                Re: Particle physics edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-13 10:21 -0700
                Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 10:44 -0700
                Re: Particle physics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-10-13 18:26 +0000
                Re: Particle physics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-10-07 00:40 +0000
                Re: Particle physics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 04:31 -0700
                Re: Particle physics poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-10-06 22:56 -0700
                Re: Particle physics poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-10-05 23:30 -0700
    Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 13:00 -0500
      Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 17:21 -0700
        Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 07:28 -0500
          Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 06:00 -0700
            Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 06:47 -0700
              Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 07:16 -0700
                Re: Particle physics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 07:40 -0700
                Re: Particle physics benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-10-04 19:05 -0400
                Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 09:53 -0500
              Re: Particle physics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-10-04 14:47 +0000
                Re: Particle physics poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 08:58 -0700
              Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 09:53 -0500
                Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 08:51 -0700
                Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 11:14 -0500
                Re: Particle physics Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-06 04:04 +0200
            Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 09:53 -0500
            Re: Particle physics poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 08:51 -0700
            Re: Particle physics rockbrentwood@gmail.com - 2016-10-07 10:22 -0700
      Re: Particle physics poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 08:41 -0700
        Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 10:59 -0500
          Re: Particle physics poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 11:10 -0700
      Re: Particle physics poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 08:48 -0700
        Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-04 11:12 -0500
      Re: Particle physics Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-05 10:28 +0200
        Re: Particle physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 07:21 -0500
          Re: Particle physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 18:47 +0200
            Re: Particle physics Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-10 13:31 +0100
              Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 05:53 -0700
                Re: Particle physics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 07:43 -0700
          Re: Particle physics Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-10 13:22 +0100

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