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Re: Atheism is Witchcraft

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On Sat, 01 Oct 2016 20:49:12 -0400, Attila < wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Oct 2016 10:40:15 +1100, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in
> alt.atheism with message-id <e5avr1F2monU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
> 
>>On 01/10/2016 18:48, Attila wrote:
>>> On Sat, 1 Oct 2016 14:53:17 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in
>>> alt.atheism with message-id <e58tq0FhoquU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/10/2016 13:16, Attila wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 1 Oct 2016 11:39:57 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in
>>>>> alt.atheism with message-id <e58ifgFfe6uU1@mid.individual.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30/09/2016 21:41, Attila wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 00:43:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in
>>>>>>> alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>> <1a078491-d220-4cbb-a5c4-ed35d4d921b7@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Communism is actually a just system, equality among all people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is unworkable outside of a small primitive community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The communities do not have to be primitive, but yes, they have to
>>>>>> be small.  There is a practical size limit, dictated by Dunbar's
>>>>>> Number
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and by external pressures.  The more isolated and marginal a
>>>>>> community, the more important cooperation and sharing of resources
>>>>>> becomes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is also the issue of how to define "communism": of resources
>>>>>> only,
>>>>>> or of total egalitarianism in authority and hierarchical structures
>>>>>> as well?  It is one thing to share the working and harvest of
>>>>>> pastures and fields, it is quite another to sit down and have
>>>>>> communal discussion and agreement on every aspect of life....
>>>>>
>>>>> The community must be small enough so that the members all know each
>>>>> other and can use social pressure to insure it works.  Since it is
>>>>> contrary to human nature it is unworkable in any extended society,
>>>>> as demonstrated wherever it has been tried.
>>>>
>>>> A theoretical exception might be nomadic cultures: by the nature of
>>>> their lifestyle, it is not just difficult but actively problematic to
>>>> amass personal property.  But in general, yes, the size limitations
>>>> definitely hold true.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose one could posit a society composed entirely of small
>>>> communities ordered along practical communist (or at least socialist)
>>>> lines, but I rather doubt that without isolation from other cultures
>>>> such a setup could survive for any length of time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It has been tried in history and has always failed once the society
>>> reached a certain size or a certain level of interaction with other
>>> societies.  Marx sounds great on the surface but it has proven to be
>>> unworkable on many levels.  The most famous problem of course was the
>>> one of transportation.
>>
>>Quite so.
>>
>>Which is not to say that there is no value or usefulness at all in such
>>a lifestyle.  Small communities may well benefit from applying such an
>>organisational model at least to a degree, as may groups of farmers or
>>other independent craftsmen, tradesmen or small businesses.  Ditto
>>students, retired people or others groups with small incomes: sharing
>>resources equally within a small group may benefit all of them.
> 
> The benefits are limited,

The benefits to whom? The 'communists' or the wider society?

> of short duration, 

The kibbutzim in Israel have lasted nearly 70 years. Hardly a short 
duration.

>and few such societies can exist today.

Yet many do.

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

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Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-17 19:42 -0500
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 06:50 +0200
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 23:24 -0700
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 20:14 +0200
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 15:06 -0400
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-30 06:33 +0200
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-29 23:27 -0700
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 02:59 -0400
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-30 00:43 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 07:41 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-01 11:39 +1000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 23:16 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-01 14:53 +1000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-01 04:48 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-02 10:40 +1100
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-01 20:49 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-10-02 13:46 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-10-02 23:14 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-03 12:15 +1100
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-02 21:25 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-03 13:43 +1100
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 11:48 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-01 10:10 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-01 10:42 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-10-01 19:09 -0700
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 02:54 -0400
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-30 02:06 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 11:17 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-30 14:07 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 23:11 -0400
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-01 08:52 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-01 05:00 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-02 07:39 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-02 02:24 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-10-02 11:53 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-02 09:01 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-02 18:02 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-02 11:02 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-10-02 19:33 -0700

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