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Re: Atheism is Witchcraft

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On 01/10/2016 18:48, Attila wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2016 14:53:17 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in
> alt.atheism with message-id <e58tq0FhoquU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>
>> On 01/10/2016 13:16, Attila wrote:
>>> On Sat, 1 Oct 2016 11:39:57 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in
>>> alt.atheism with message-id <e58ifgFfe6uU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 30/09/2016 21:41, Attila wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 00:43:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in
>>>>> alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <1a078491-d220-4cbb-a5c4-ed35d4d921b7@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Communism is actually a just system, equality among all people.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is unworkable outside of a small primitive community.
>>>>
>>>> The communities do not have to be primitive, but yes, they have to be
>>>> small.  There is a practical size limit, dictated by Dunbar's Number
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
>>>>
>>>> and by external pressures.  The more isolated and marginal a community,
>>>> the more important cooperation and sharing of resources becomes.
>>>>
>>>> There is also the issue of how to define "communism": of resources only,
>>>> or of total egalitarianism in authority and hierarchical structures as
>>>> well?  It is one thing to share the working and harvest of pastures and
>>>> fields, it is quite another to sit down and have communal discussion and
>>>> agreement on every aspect of life....
>>>
>>> The community must be small enough so that the members all know each
>>> other and can use social pressure to insure it works.  Since it is
>>> contrary to human nature it is unworkable in any extended society, as
>>> demonstrated wherever it has been tried.
>>
>> A theoretical exception might be nomadic cultures: by the nature of
>> their lifestyle, it is not just difficult but actively problematic to
>> amass personal property.  But in general, yes, the size limitations
>> definitely hold true.
>>
>> I suppose one could posit a society composed entirely of small
>> communities ordered along practical communist (or at least socialist)
>> lines, but I rather doubt that without isolation from other cultures
>> such a setup could survive for any length of time.
>>
>
> It has been tried in history and has always failed once the society
> reached a certain size or a certain level of interaction with other
> societies.  Marx sounds great on the surface but it has proven to be
> unworkable on many levels.  The most famous problem of course was the
> one of transportation.

Quite so.

Which is not to say that there is no value or usefulness at all in such 
a lifestyle.  Small communities may well benefit from applying such an 
organisational model at least to a degree, as may groups of farmers or 
other independent craftsmen, tradesmen or small businesses.  Ditto 
students, retired people or others groups with small incomes: sharing 
resources equally within a small group may benefit all of them.

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Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-17 19:42 -0500
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 06:50 +0200
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 23:24 -0700
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 20:14 +0200
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 15:06 -0400
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-30 06:33 +0200
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-29 23:27 -0700
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 02:59 -0400
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-30 00:43 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 07:41 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-01 11:39 +1000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 23:16 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-01 14:53 +1000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-01 04:48 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-02 10:40 +1100
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-01 20:49 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-10-02 13:46 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-10-02 23:14 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-03 12:15 +1100
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-02 21:25 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-03 13:43 +1100
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 11:48 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-01 10:10 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-01 10:42 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-10-01 19:09 -0700
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 02:54 -0400
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-30 02:06 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 11:17 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-30 14:07 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 23:11 -0400
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-01 08:52 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-01 05:00 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-02 07:39 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-02 02:24 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-10-02 11:53 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-02 09:01 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-02 18:02 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-02 11:02 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-10-02 19:33 -0700

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