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Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'.

From HGW <hw@....>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'.
Date 2016-09-25 19:28 +1000
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <ns85b1$1vl9$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <e4mnonF637kU1@mid.individual.net> <ns5q37$nee$1@gioia.aioe.org> <e4n8u5Fa3v3U1@mid.individual.net> <ns6moq$6c2$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ns7frk$bt3$2@pcls7.std.com>

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On 25/09/16 13:21, Michael Moroney wrote:
> "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> writes:
>
>> On 24/09/16 22:12, Sylvia Else wrote:
>
>>> It does move at c relative to its source.
>>>
>>> But that doesn't mean that it will catch up with the previous pulse,
>>> because of the way that velocities combine (i.e. not by simple addition).
>
>> Ok, let us introduce an arbitrary observer who will eventually receive
>> the light pulses. Quite obviously, his presence cannot affect the way
>> the pulses leave the source or the speed at which either of them
>> subsequently travels. To claim that the chance existence of his obscure
>> frame of reference is the sole determinant of the speeds of the pulses
>> is nonsensical. The only true reference is the source itself.
>
> Good idea, Doctor, so let's figure out what speed the receiver will measure
> the speed of the light pulses, Doctor, if the sender sends the pulses at
> two different speeds, v1 and v2.
>
> Doctor, we all know that if the sender moving at v relative to the
> observer sends something at speed u relative to itself, the receiver
> will measure the speed of that something as (u+v)/(1+uv/c^2).
>
> So, if the source of the pulses is moving at v1 and sends a pulse of light
> to the observer at c relative to the source, the observer will measure
> the speed as: (c+v1)/(1+c*v1/c^2).  We can simplify that as (c+v1)/(1+v1/c).
> Multiply by 1 in the form c/c, now we have c*(c+v1)/(c+c*v1/c), or
> c*(c+v1)/(c+v1) or just c.  So the receiver will receive the pulse
> when the source is moving at v1 at speed c relative to itself.
> And the observer did not affect the source in any way.
>
> Now let's repeat when the source is moving at speed v2.  Doctor, I won't
> repeat the math, but it quickly becomes obvious the observer will also
> receive this light pulse at c.  So, when the source sends a light pulse
> at c relative to itself, the observer will always receive it at c,
> relative to itself.  Isn't that cool, Doctor!

Poor little Mickey....born lacking something up top apparently....Maybe 
his ancestors suffered in the potato famine and missed out on some vitamins.

Moron-y, you have been tricked by a devious mathematician.
He said, "we know that light moves at c in its source frame and by 
postulate it always moves at c in any other frame".

Let w be the speed of light in the other frame and v the speed of the 
other frame relative to the source.
By postulate: w = c.
= c(c+v)/(c+v) = (c+v)/(1+v/c) = (c+v)/(1+cv/c^2)

Oh dear! Little Mickey has proved that w = c by using an equation that 
started out as w = c....
Oh dear, oh dear!


--

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Thread

Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-22 12:07 +1000
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-22 13:42 +1000
    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-22 14:56 +1000
      Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-23 13:09 +1000
        Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-24 09:23 +1000
          Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-24 17:19 +1000
            Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-24 04:01 -0700
              Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-24 22:07 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 13:01 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-25 05:53 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 15:35 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-24 15:48 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-25 17:44 +1000
            Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-24 22:04 +1000
              Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-24 22:12 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-25 06:13 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 15:37 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-25 11:55 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-27 12:43 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-27 20:23 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-27 22:25 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-28 06:39 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-28 11:38 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-28 14:18 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-28 15:18 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-29 02:47 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-29 09:25 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-29 20:34 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-30 09:41 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-30 00:06 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-30 04:10 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-30 04:21 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-30 13:04 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-30 11:48 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-01 08:13 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 15:52 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-02 08:24 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 09:52 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-10-02 00:03 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-02 18:07 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-02 08:27 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-02 08:33 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-03 09:28 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-03 11:05 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-05 09:14 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-04 17:23 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-10-05 09:36 +0200
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-06 09:00 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-10-06 09:08 +0200
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-10-03 08:51 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-03 10:39 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 09:53 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-06 20:26 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 09:44 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-06 10:54 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 12:57 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-06 11:09 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 13:45 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-07 05:58 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 08:18 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-07 09:39 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 12:07 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-08 06:18 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-08 15:07 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-07 10:20 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 11:10 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 13:44 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 13:45 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-06 11:57 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-29 06:08 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 19:10 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-29 07:26 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-30 09:10 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-30 08:27 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-28 10:14 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-28 13:32 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-28 13:44 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-28 14:31 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-29 06:54 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 07:20 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-29 07:32 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 08:13 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-29 08:42 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 10:04 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-29 10:44 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 13:28 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-29 15:26 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-29 02:29 +0000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-29 20:51 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-30 03:13 +0000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-03 09:23 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-10-03 05:57 +0000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-02 09:53 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-01 16:22 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-02 18:09 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-03 13:10 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-05 09:16 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-05 11:37 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-04 17:44 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-05 12:02 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-05 08:07 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-06 11:54 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-06 11:08 -0700
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-05 00:23 -0700
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-06 08:46 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-10-06 00:08 +0000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-07 09:32 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-10-07 02:24 +0000
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-07 14:46 +1100
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-19 06:38 -0700
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-10-19 18:03 +0000
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-20 13:51 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-21 09:29 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-10-05 18:16 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 09:07 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-07 09:56 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-25 03:21 +0000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-25 19:28 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-26 01:49 +0000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-26 19:44 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-26 04:00 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-25 14:52 +0200
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-25 07:30 -0700
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          Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-24 15:06 +0200
            Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-25 05:57 +1000
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    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-21 23:13 -0700
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    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-22 20:03 +1000
      Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 13:41 +0200
        Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-23 05:58 +1000
          Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 15:13 -0500
            Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-23 07:04 +1000
              Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 07:02 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-24 09:30 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 12:47 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-25 06:16 +1000
          Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 09:04 +0200
            Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-24 09:32 +1000
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2016-09-22 07:37 +0200
    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-22 20:01 +1000
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 04:27 -0700
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 16:56 -0700
    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-24 22:11 +1000
      Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 13:04 -0500
        Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-25 06:25 +1000
          Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 16:31 -0500
            Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-27 03:28 +1000
              Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 06:11 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-28 06:51 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 17:03 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-28 11:14 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-27 19:23 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-28 14:20 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-28 04:31 -0700
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 05:48 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-30 09:14 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 19:58 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-28 05:05 -0700
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-24 10:45 -0700
    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-25 06:30 +1000
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 02:32 -0700
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. bartekltg <bartek@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 13:31 +0200
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-26 05:46 -0700
    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Python <python@org.invalid> - 2016-09-26 15:21 +0200
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