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| From | BartC <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Advantages of C |
| Date | 2016-07-19 11:00 +0100 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <nmktoa$r3b$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (1 earlier) <87eg6rhrq6.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <nmiuog$e9j$1@dont-email.me> <87k2giivbd.fsf@news.bourguet.org> <nmjder$4i8$1@dont-email.me> <nmkdt3$em5$1@dont-email.me> |
On 19/07/2016 06:30, Udyant Wig wrote:
> On 07/19/2016 01:46 AM, BartC wrote:
>> The syntax of Lisp is the first thing that hits you. And what probably
>> puts most people off. So why persist with it?
>
> Might there not be a reason for a thing to exist? Perhaps it has been
> found be very useful?
>
>> You're right in that s-expressions themselves aren't a big deal. And
>> they could be used in any well-structured language including C:
>>
>> (function fib static ((int n)) int ... ; whatever
>> (if (< n 2)
>> ( (return n)
>> )
>> ( (return (+ (fib (- n 1)) (fib (- n 2))))
>> )
>> )
>> )
>
> What horrible code! It is as if you wrote this awful mess in C:
>
> int fib(int n)
> {if (n < 2)
> {return n
> ;}
> else
> {return fib(n - 1) + fib(n - 2)
> ;}}
It *was* meant to be C as it might appear written using Lisp-like
syntax. (The body was generated by a modified back-end of a compiler,
the first line by hand. The compiler emulates a style where branches of
an 'if' for example always use {,}.)
The tidiness is not relevant; it just shows programming languages can
easily use such syntax, or even XML which is probably worse. But they
would not be sensible choices /for a human coder/.
I haven't looked at Lisp code for a while, but looking at one sample now
I can see it's not just the s-expressions that are the problem, with
their lack of special symbols to break up the code; it's also the
sprawling style due to spelling things out in words all the time:
(declare (type fixnum max-depth min-depth))
(loop for d of-type fixnum from min-depth by 2 upto max-depth do
(loop with iterations of-type fixnum = (ash 1 (+ max-depth
min-depth (- d)))
for i of-type fixnum from 1 upto iterations
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/program.php?test=binarytrees&lang=sbcl&id=2
I think that's two nested loops there, not three. I'm reminded of some
Italian autostrada, years ago, which was so badly marked that I couldn't
tell if it was two lanes or three!
But this example also seems to copy the annoying C trait of mixing in
declarations amongst the code, increasing clutter. I'm not sure the
declarations are even necessary in the Lisp.
--
Bartc
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Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 17:02 +0200
Re: Advantages of C BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-18 16:16 +0100
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 19:13 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 23:56 +0530
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 08:17 -0700
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 17:38 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-18 16:48 +0100
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 17:58 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-18 17:27 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-18 15:19 -0400
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-18 21:49 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-18 22:06 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 01:11 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-19 01:31 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 02:29 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-18 21:58 -0400
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 16:30 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 02:06 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 19:39 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 15:29 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-19 07:39 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 17:19 +0100
Re: Advantages of C luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 21:16 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-18 22:47 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 16:48 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-19 10:21 +1200
Re: Advantages of C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-23 19:43 +0000
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 18:05 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2016-07-18 21:45 +0200
Re: Advantages of C BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-18 21:16 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 11:00 +0530
Re: Advantages of C BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-19 11:00 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 10:08 +0530
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 23:32 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 16:54 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 01:54 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 20:02 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 11:26 +0530
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-19 01:43 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 10:33 +0530
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-20 01:07 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 12:53 +0530
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 15:33 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-19 08:04 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 17:35 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 19:21 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2016-07-20 12:05 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 16:51 -0700
Re: Advantages of C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-23 09:24 +0000
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-23 02:33 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-18 22:36 +0100
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-19 00:00 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 01:46 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 19:49 +0100
Re: Advantages of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-20 12:02 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-20 12:32 -0700
Re: Advantages of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-20 13:18 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 20:37 +0100
Re: Advantages of C jadill33@gmail.com - 2016-07-20 13:06 -0700
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-20 23:07 +0200
Re: Advantages of C jadill33@gmail.com - 2016-07-21 09:48 -0700
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-22 10:14 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-22 20:25 +1200
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-22 02:17 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-22 23:56 +1200
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-22 11:28 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-22 23:49 +1200
Re: Advantages of C jadill33@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 06:46 -0700
Re: Advantages of C BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-18 23:13 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 01:45 +0100
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 19:18 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-18 22:47 +0100
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-19 00:07 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-07-19 00:18 +0200
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-19 01:36 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-19 10:28 +1200
Re: Advantages of C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-18 20:34 -0400
Re: Advantages of C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-18 20:33 -0400
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 19:30 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 17:01 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 23:51 +0530
Re: Advantages of C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-20 09:01 -0700
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