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| From | Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Advantages of C |
| Date | 2016-07-19 11:26 +0530 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <nmkffb$i2c$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <87k2giivbd.fsf@news.bourguet.org> <nmjht3$jto$1@dont-email.me> <8c16aaf7-46a7-4c64-8133-20b915b19876@googlegroups.com> <87mvlefnvi.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <0dea296b-e65d-401a-ab10-934decf30456@googlegroups.com> |
On 07/19/2016 08:32 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 1:55:05 AM UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> I note you've pulled a sneaky switch -- it's now a "non-trivial
>> program" where before it was a "basic function in Lisp". Can I
>> assume that you've decided that at least that piece of polemic is
>> untenable?
>
> Here are two Lisp functions written by Paul Graham
>
> Here's "not"
> (defun not. (x)
> (cond (x '())
> ('t 't)))
>
> Ok, we can just about make that one out. If x evaluates to true,
> return the empty list. Else if true evaluates to true, return true.
> It's hard to think of a simpler function, however.
>
> And here's "eval".
>
> (defun eval. (e a)
> (cond
> ((atom e) (assoc. e a))
> ((atom (car e))
> (cond
> ((eq (car e) 'quote) (cadr e))
> ((eq (car e) 'atom) (atom (eval. (cadr e) a)))
> ((eq (car e) 'eq) (eq (eval. (cadr e) a)
> (eval. (caddr e) a)))
> ((eq (car e) 'car) (car (eval. (cadr e) a)))
> ((eq (car e) 'cdr) (cdr (eval. (cadr e) a)))
> ((eq (car e) 'cons) (cons (eval. (cadr e) a)
> (eval. (caddr e) a)))
> ((eq (car e) 'cond) (evcon. (cdr e) a))
> ('t (eval. (cons (assoc. (car e) a)
> (cdr e))
> a))))
> ((eq (caar e) 'label)
> (eval. (cons (caddar e) (cdr e))
> (cons (list. (cadar e) (car e)) a)))
> ((eq (caar e) 'lambda)
> (eval. (caddar e)
> (append. (pair. (cadar e) (evlis. (cdr e) a))
> a)))))
>
> Now are you seriously telling me that you can give that to an average
> person and expect any type of comprehension about what it is doing?
Would you also give a random part of a core C library to an "average
person" and expect any type of comprehension about what it is doing?
Why would you give it to an "average person" in the first place?
> Considering that it is effectively the Lisp interpreter in self-speak,
> it's a remarkably concise piece of code. But it's just not something
> that is suitable for human beings.
Is it then meant for superhumans? I hope you do not mean it is meant
for subhumans.
> It's too deeply nested, it doesn't create local names to
> auto-document, the flow control is hierarchical rather than linear
> making it hard to dry run.
It is how _one_ Lisp programmer wrote code meant for instruction. His
point, as I understand it, was to only use the primitives of a Lisp to
build up the core of a small Lisp system; it was pedagogical in
nature. Just as K&R did not incorporate error handling in their
seminal book so that they could focus on teaching the concepts. But
they surely knew the value of error handling in real code.
--
Udyant Wig
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Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 17:02 +0200
Re: Advantages of C BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-18 16:16 +0100
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 19:13 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 23:56 +0530
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 08:17 -0700
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 17:38 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-18 16:48 +0100
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 17:58 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-18 17:27 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-18 15:19 -0400
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-18 21:49 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-18 22:06 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 01:11 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-19 01:31 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 02:29 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-18 21:58 -0400
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 16:30 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 02:06 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 19:39 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 15:29 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-19 07:39 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 17:19 +0100
Re: Advantages of C luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 21:16 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-18 22:47 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 16:48 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-19 10:21 +1200
Re: Advantages of C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-23 19:43 +0000
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 18:05 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2016-07-18 21:45 +0200
Re: Advantages of C BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-18 21:16 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 11:00 +0530
Re: Advantages of C BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-19 11:00 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 10:08 +0530
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 23:32 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 16:54 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 01:54 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 20:02 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 11:26 +0530
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-19 01:43 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 10:33 +0530
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-20 01:07 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 12:53 +0530
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 15:33 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-19 08:04 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 17:35 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 19:21 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2016-07-20 12:05 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 16:51 -0700
Re: Advantages of C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-23 09:24 +0000
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-23 02:33 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-18 22:36 +0100
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-19 00:00 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 01:46 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 19:49 +0100
Re: Advantages of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-20 12:02 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-20 12:32 -0700
Re: Advantages of C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-20 13:18 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 20:37 +0100
Re: Advantages of C jadill33@gmail.com - 2016-07-20 13:06 -0700
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-20 23:07 +0200
Re: Advantages of C jadill33@gmail.com - 2016-07-21 09:48 -0700
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-22 10:14 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-22 20:25 +1200
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-22 02:17 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-22 23:56 +1200
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-22 11:28 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-22 23:49 +1200
Re: Advantages of C jadill33@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 06:46 -0700
Re: Advantages of C BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-18 23:13 +0100
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-19 01:45 +0100
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-18 19:18 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-18 22:47 +0100
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-19 00:07 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-07-19 00:18 +0200
Re: Advantages of C jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-19 01:36 +0200
Re: Advantages of C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-19 10:28 +1200
Re: Advantages of C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-18 20:34 -0400
Re: Advantages of C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-18 20:33 -0400
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 19:30 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 17:01 -0700
Re: Advantages of C Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 23:51 +0530
Re: Advantages of C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-20 09:01 -0700
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