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Re: Gravity and light question

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Gravity and light question
Date 2016-07-15 13:56 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <nmbbl0$3ot$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <e8ea96b9-5f35-4a2c-b418-82a20294c87f@googlegroups.com> <nmb9mr$hm$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ae02d5c0-db1d-4fda-8949-f3a40b4294be@googlegroups.com> <nmbamp$27p$1@gioia.aioe.org> <dc6f4c29-bbf2-4b13-b3e5-ad717661f90e@googlegroups.com>

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On 7/15/2016 1:47 PM, mapou001@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, July 15, 2016 at 11:40:31 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 7/15/2016 1:31 PM, mapou001@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 15, 2016 at 11:23:27 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 7/15/2016 1:05 PM, mapou001@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Sorry, this makes no sense. If the equivalence principle was right there
>>>>> should be no difference between the acceleration of massive and massless
>>>>> particles by gravity.
>>>>
>>>> And there isn't. They follow the identical law. That would be the point.
>>>>
>>>> The law is that the bend is proportional to G(1+Y), where Y is close to
>>>> 0 for slow-moving things and Y is close to 1 for things moving close to
>>>> the speed of light. Same law, factor of 2 arises only from slow-moving
>>>> vs. fast moving.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>>>
>>> Fuck you. The EP has nothing to do with the speed of objects.
>>
>> The EP says that the effect of gravity is INDISTINGUISHABLE from the
>> physics of an accelerated frame, provided that the laboratory is small
>> enough. Period. That is ALL it says. It does NOT say that the
>> acceleration of a fast moving object under gravity will be the same as
>> the acceleration of a slow moving object under gravity. It never did.
>>
>>> Einstein's
>>> thought experiment in the accelerating chamber makes that clear. If light
>>> particles are accelerated more than other particles, then the EP is broken.
>>
>> Light is NOT accelerated more than other particles traveling at the same
>> speed.
>>
>>> Live with it.
>>
>> Consider the possibility that you may have misunderstood something about
>> the EP, or about what Carlip said, or what relativity actually says. And
>> do that before being so WEDDED UNTIL DEATH DO YOU PART that relativity
>> is wrong.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>
> This is not about what relativity says. Fuck that. It's about the equivalence principle.

Then look up what the equivalence principle says. It does NOT say that 
all things fall at the same rate in gravity. Period, end of story.

It's clear that SOMETHING has been violated, but it's only the thing 
that you've made up, which is neither the equivalence principle nor 
anything relativity actually says.

> Either EVERYTHING accelerates the same way in gravity or they don't. They clearly don't,
> which means that the EP is violated. There must be a physical reason for it. And no, a
> math equation is not a reason. It's a fudge introduced to a theory to make it agree with
> observation. It's no better than Ptolemaic epicycles.

Sorry, but this is just full of shit.
If there is a quantity like acceleration, and the acceleration goes like 
G(1+Y) and you believe that Y changing from object to object is a FUDGE 
designed to match data, then I'm afraid you're going to have a problem 
with physics in general, and not with Einstein.

Here's a simple example from HIGH SCHOOL PHYSICS and Galileo:
The distance traveled by something starting from rest and accelerating 
uniformly is given by s=(1/2)at^2.
Now, can you give me a PHYSICAL REASON for the factor of (1/2) or in 
your mind, was that just a fudge to fit data after the fact?
Is there a PHYSICAL reason the t is squared as opposed to just being to 
the first power or the third power, or was that just a fudge to fit the 
data after the fact?

Go ahead, have at it.

>
> Math is descriptive only. It explains nothing, goddammit. Get a clue.
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-14 23:01 -0700
  Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 07:25 -0500
    Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 08:36 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 10:41 -0500
      Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 11:02 -0500
        Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:46 -0700
          Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:11 -0500
            Re: Gravity and light question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-17 16:30 +0200
              Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-17 11:15 -0500
              Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:29 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-18 00:16 +0200
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 06:39 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question xxein1@att.net - 2016-07-18 09:32 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-18 22:55 +0200
  Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-15 09:33 -0500
    Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 08:36 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-15 11:25 -0500
        Re: Gravity and light question "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 10:02 -0700
    Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:42 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-15 14:22 -0500
  glightinos noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 10:06 -0700
  Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:40 -0700
    Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:42 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:51 -0700
        Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:05 -0700
          Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:23 -0500
            Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:31 -0700
              Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:40 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:47 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:56 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:54 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:58 -0500
              Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 10:29 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 11:09 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 09:45 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 09:59 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 12:59 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 11:15 -0700
          Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 09:56 -0700
            Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 10:03 -0700
              Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 12:22 -0500
              Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 12:38 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 11:04 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 13:25 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 11:45 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 14:12 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 14:19 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 12:24 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 14:33 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question xxein1@att.net - 2016-07-18 14:01 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 16:13 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-07-18 19:02 -0400
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 16:45 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 13:12 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 11:17 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 13:46 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 11:51 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 13:58 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 12:11 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 14:19 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 12:30 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 14:38 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 12:43 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 15:08 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 13:26 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:15 -0500
    Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 12:54 -0500
  Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:41 -0700
    Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:50 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:18 -0500
        Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:22 -0700
          Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:36 -0500
            Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:43 -0700
              Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:49 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:58 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 14:01 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 12:06 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 14:17 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 12:19 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 14:29 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-15 14:23 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 12:33 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-15 16:58 -0500
  Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 13:18 -0700
    Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 13:34 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 15:19 -0700
        Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 15:29 -0700
          Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 16:15 -0700
            Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 16:17 -0700
              Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 16:46 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 17:14 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 17:55 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 18:08 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 19:47 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:41 -0500
        Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-17 14:08 -0700
          Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 06:38 -0500
    Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 15:38 -0500
      Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 14:03 -0700
        Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 13:02 -0500
          Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 12:56 -0700
            Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 14:02 -0700
              Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 14:10 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 16:38 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 14:46 -0700
            Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 16:36 -0500
              Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 14:45 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 16:48 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 15:10 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 16:11 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 18:18 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 19:40 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 23:35 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-17 00:35 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:24 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question xxein1@att.net - 2016-07-16 22:22 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:22 -0500
    all properties of light are wave(y\s, including the photon-electrical effect noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 17:03 -0700
  Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 16:42 -0700
    Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-17 16:37 -0500
  Re: Gravity and light question "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 13:15 -0700
    Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-17 13:17 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:41 -0500

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