Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics > #589432

Re: Gravity and light question

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Gravity and light question
Date 2016-07-15 13:36 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <nmbaf1$1rl$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <0a163a49-9fa1-4559-9d24-690bc522b0c6@googlegroups.com> <d325e554-534a-4f0a-b450-d820f6ca40d2@googlegroups.com> <c267b576-2134-458c-af30-6b528f52ebbf@googlegroups.com> <nmb9d2$1vf7$2@gioia.aioe.org> <b6176fbb-c66d-4678-9bf4-8f2b8fba62df@googlegroups.com>

Show all headers | View raw

On 7/15/2016 1:22 PM, mapou001@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, July 15, 2016 at 11:18:15 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 7/15/2016 12:50 PM, mapou001@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 15, 2016 at 10:41:17 AM UTC-7, edpr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Friday, July 15, 2016 at 2:01:12 AM UTC-4, mapo...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Is there a hypothesis that explains why light falls twice as fast as mass?
>>>>
>>>> Actually that is wrong. It is more correct to say that light
>>>> falls 2 times faster than Newton's theory predicts.
>>>>
>>>> Or as put in another way light falls twice as fast as SLOW mass.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please, don't offer equations because math explain nothing.
>>>>> On the contrary, it's the math that needs a physical explanation.
>>>>
>>>> (I hope you don't mind a little math.)
>>>>
>>>> My simple explanation is that Newton's theory does not account for
>>>> mass equivalent to the kinetic energy. remember E=Mc^2?
>>>>
>>>> Total energy of something is the energy due to it's mass plus
>>>>  it also has mass due to it's kinetic energy.
>>>> For things moving much slower than light, this mass is
>>>>  VERY, Very, very, ..., small.
>>>>
>>>> Now the acceleration due to gravity, g, is proportional
>>>> to the masses, Ma and Mb, multiplied together of both
>>>> bodies A & B involved.
>>>>
>>>> Lets think about motion relative to the larger body A.
>>>> then body B's total mass is the mass it has when it is
>>>> not moving (also called it's rest mass) PLUS the mass
>>>> equivalent of its kinetic energy.
>>>>
>>>> If B is moving VERY FAST, then this equivalent mass can
>>>> change the value of the acceleration g.
>>>>
>>>> For light the math has to be done a little differently
>>>> but the idea is the same. As a result the value of g
>>>> (the rate the smaller body "falls") is twice as large
>>>> using relativity theory than Newtonian theory.
>>>>
>>>> look here for some of the mathematical explanation:
>>>> http://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/9909014v1.pdf
>>>>
>>>> That paper also make the same (IMHO) erroneous description,
>>>> but otherwise it seem quite good.
>>>
>>> Yeah, but this violates the equivalence principle.
>>
>> No, it doesn't. I don't know why you think it does.
>>
>>> Also, I have read somewhere that GR predicts that light falls
>>> slower (not faster) than ordinary massive particles.
>>
>> Can you remember where you read this?
>>
>> (If you can't remember where you read something, how confident are you
>> in how well you remember what you read?)
>>
>>> This, too, would break the EP.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>
> Fuck you.
>

I'll be nicer if you get nicer.

There's an underlying message here for you, which I hope you'll take 
note of.
First off, you took a sound bite and ran clear to the hills with it, 
without checking your understanding first. You saw Carlip's note and 
interpreted it to mean that the deflection of light and the deflection 
of matter obey two different rules, which then led you to jump to the 
conclusion that the equivalence principle was violated, which then led 
you to the presumption that you had discovered an internal inconsistency 
in GR, which then led you to issue a whistle-blower cry of indignation 
that the whole mess was an unholy fraud foisted on people for a century.

WHEN IN FACT, light and matter obey the exact same rule, completely 
consistent with the equivalence principle, therefore no evidence of 
internal inconsistency, and certainly no reason to bellow "FRAUD!"

And WHERE in fact, had you stopped your charge headlong into the weeds 
long enough to actually pick something up and READ a bit about the 
subject to learn what Carlip was actually saying (which is that fast 
moving things deflect twice as much as slow moving things, in a way 
described by the common rule), then you would have UNDERSTOOD FOR 
YOURSELF where that statement comes from. But for some reason, you are 
unwilling or unable to pick up something to read on the subject before 
charging into the woods.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Back to sci.physics | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-14 23:01 -0700
  Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 07:25 -0500
    Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 08:36 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 10:41 -0500
      Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 11:02 -0500
        Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:46 -0700
          Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:11 -0500
            Re: Gravity and light question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-17 16:30 +0200
              Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-17 11:15 -0500
              Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:29 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-18 00:16 +0200
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 06:39 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question xxein1@att.net - 2016-07-18 09:32 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-18 22:55 +0200
  Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-15 09:33 -0500
    Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 08:36 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-15 11:25 -0500
        Re: Gravity and light question "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 10:02 -0700
    Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:42 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-15 14:22 -0500
  glightinos noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 10:06 -0700
  Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:40 -0700
    Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:42 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:51 -0700
        Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:05 -0700
          Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:23 -0500
            Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:31 -0700
              Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:40 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:47 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:56 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:54 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:58 -0500
              Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 10:29 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 11:09 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 09:45 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 09:59 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 12:59 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 11:15 -0700
          Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 09:56 -0700
            Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 10:03 -0700
              Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 12:22 -0500
              Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 12:38 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 11:04 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 13:25 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 11:45 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 14:12 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 14:19 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 12:24 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 14:33 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question xxein1@att.net - 2016-07-18 14:01 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 16:13 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-07-18 19:02 -0400
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-18 16:45 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 13:12 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 11:17 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 13:46 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 11:51 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 13:58 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 12:11 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 14:19 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 12:30 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 14:38 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 12:43 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 15:08 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-19 13:26 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:15 -0500
    Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 12:54 -0500
  Re: Gravity and light question edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:41 -0700
    Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 10:50 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:18 -0500
        Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:22 -0700
          Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:36 -0500
            Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:43 -0700
              Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 13:49 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 11:58 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 14:01 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 12:06 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 14:17 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 12:19 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 14:29 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-15 14:23 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 12:33 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-15 16:58 -0500
  Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 13:18 -0700
    Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 13:34 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 15:19 -0700
        Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 15:29 -0700
          Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 16:15 -0700
            Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 16:17 -0700
              Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 16:46 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 17:14 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 17:55 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 18:08 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 19:47 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:41 -0500
        Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-17 14:08 -0700
          Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 06:38 -0500
    Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 15:38 -0500
      Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 14:03 -0700
        Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 13:02 -0500
          Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 12:56 -0700
            Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 14:02 -0700
              Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 14:10 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 16:38 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 14:46 -0700
            Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 16:36 -0500
              Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 14:45 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 16:48 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 15:10 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 16:11 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 18:18 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 19:40 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-16 23:35 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-17 00:35 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:24 -0500
                Re: Gravity and light question xxein1@att.net - 2016-07-16 22:22 -0700
                Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:22 -0500
    all properties of light are wave(y\s, including the photon-electrical effect noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 17:03 -0700
  Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 16:42 -0700
    Re: Gravity and light question Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-07-17 16:37 -0500
  Re: Gravity and light question "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 13:15 -0700
    Re: Gravity and light question mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-17 13:17 -0700
      Re: Gravity and light question Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:41 -0500

csiph-web