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Re: 'shake well'

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On 05/07/2026 08:05, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 5/07/2026 2:25 a.m., occam wrote:
>> On 04/07/2026 12:59, Ross Clark wrote:
>>> On 4/07/2026 6:43 p.m., Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>> Den 04.07.2026 kl. 04.33 skrev Rich Ulrich:
>>>>
>>>>> But my lifetime experience with other sealed containers has
>>>>> taught me that a juice container (say) with sediment on the
>>>>> bottom will NOT be mixed by shaking unless there is air inside.
>>>>> You can shake it and SEE that the sediment is not affected.
>>>>> But they still may say, 'shake well'.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Half-empty makes for effective mix-by-shaking. which may  be
>>>>> okay if you are pouring everything back together.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the container is transparent (even, just at the bottom), you
>>>>> can see what is stuck on the bottom.  But what do you do for
>>>>> a cardboard container?
>>>>
>>>> My father provides orange juice for me when I visit him. I don't
>>>> usually drink juice due to the acidic contents, but I enjoy doing so
>>>> occasionally.
>>>>
>>>> The container is made of cardboard. If it is full, I just pour a glass
>>>> and drink it. Then I can shake the container for the next glass(es).
>>>>
>>>> Related - and Danish:
>>>> There's a word about the sediment that may be found in wine bottles
>>>> ("bærme"). The same word can be used about people meaning that they
>>>> are worthless. I haven't heard that word since my parents explained it
>>>> to me and I haven't used it about anything else than the residue in
>>>> wine bottles - which I think I have seen once.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Cf. English: barmy (sometimes spelled balmy) 'crazy, stupid'
>>> from barm 'froth on fermenting malt liquor'   (COD)
>>
>> Sorry, which dictionary is COD? 'balmy' in my speech is 'pleasant' as in
>> 'balmy summer nights'. It's barmy if it shares the same spelling with
>> 'crazy' barmy.
>>
> 
> Concise Oxford Dictionary (Eighth Edition, 1990).
> 
> barm (old word, straight from Proto-Germanic) 'froth on fermenting malt
> liquor' (formerly 'yeast, leaven')
> 
> balm (Middle English < French < Latin balsamum) 'aromatic
> ointment...healing or soothing influence...'
> 
> balmy (from 1500) 'mild and fragrant, soothing'
> 
> barmy (from 1500s) 'frothy'
> 
> The meaning of this extends to 'full of ferment, excitedly active,
> flighty' (usually of someone's head). (1600-1800)
> 
> By the 19th century this has generalized to 'foolish, stupid, silly'.
> But by this time, barm = balm, in the pronunciaton of many English
> speakers (assuming they have both words in their vocabulary). 

Thank you. That sounds plausible. (My first reaction was - perhaps a
Japanese editor of the Concise Oriental Dictionary could not
differentiate between the two.) </smile>

> So there's
> some uncertainty about how to spell the adjective. So OED has-l-
> spellings from 1851, but -r- only from 1892.
> 
> When I heard this in my youth, I assumed it was -l-, perhaps from seeing
> it in print, or because 'barm' did not exist in my vocabulary; I vaguely
> knew what 'balm' was (there's one in Gilead, apparently), and there
> certainly was an adjective 'balmy' with a very different meaning. Only
> recently have I learned the history of 'barmy', from dictionaries.

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Thread

'shake well' Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-07-03 22:33 -0400
  Re: 'shake well' Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 00:03 -0400
    Re: 'shake well' Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 23:05 -0700
    Re: 'shake well' occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-04 12:02 +0200
      Re: 'shake well' Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-07-04 08:46 -0400
        Re: 'shake well' Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-04 20:26 +0200
      Re: 'shake well' Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 09:28 -0400
  Re: 'shake well' Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-04 06:38 +0100
    Re: 'shake well' Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-04 08:49 +0200
  Re: 'shake well' Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-04 06:51 +0100
    Re: 'shake well' Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-07-04 08:48 -0400
  Re: 'shake well' occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-04 08:28 +0200
  Re: 'shake well' Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-04 08:43 +0200
    Re: 'shake well' Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-04 08:02 +0100
      Re: 'shake well' nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-04 11:53 +0200
      Re: 'shake well' Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-04 20:05 +0100
    Re: 'shake well' Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-07-04 22:59 +1200
      Re: 'shake well' occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-04 16:25 +0200
        Re: 'shake well' HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> - 2026-07-04 16:11 +0100
          Re: 'shake well' Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-04 16:27 +0100
          Re: 'shake well' richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-04 15:40 +0000
            Re: 'shake well' Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-05 10:06 +0100
        Re: 'shake well' Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-07-04 16:00 +0000
        Re: 'shake well' Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-07-05 18:05 +1200
          Re: 'shake well' occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-05 08:45 +0200
    Re: 'shake well' Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-07-04 08:39 -0400
  Re: 'shake well' nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-04 11:53 +0200
    Re: 'shake well' occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-04 12:05 +0200
      Re: 'shake well' liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-04 12:29 +0100
        Re: 'shake well' Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 00:20 -0700
        Re: 'shake well' nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-05 09:22 +0200
  Re: 'shake well' "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 21:49 +0800
  Re: 'shake well' Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-04 20:01 +0100

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