Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`)

From	Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`)
Date	2015-10-31 20:34 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<n138gm$rlq$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <5631ea8e.325244440@news.eternal-september.org> <2015Oct29.162945@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <a48be84d-7fb3-435b-831b-ec1a187fb67b@googlegroups.com> <n0vkih$7ai$1@dont-email.me> <2015Oct31.162507@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

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On 31/10/2015 15:25, Anton Ertl wrote:
> Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>> On 30/10/2015 11:17, Mark Wills wrote:
>>> But I'm encouraged to see you aknowledge that the current standard
>>> does not meet the goal of portability.
>>>
>>
>> I disagree with that last statement. I have written a few large tools
>> that run on at least 6 different ANS Forth systems. Once aware of
>> ambiguous conditions and restrictions it is easy to avoid them, to do
>> otherwise is sheer laziness on the part of the programmer.
>
> Well, maybe all the people who have written non-portable Forth
> programs are just lazy, but it seems that even though you consider it
> easy,

Perhaps I should clarify that, I mean easy with full feature Forths 
running on a desktop - I don't use embedded systems. Clearly a program 
requiring use of wordlists won't run on a system that doesn't implement 
the optional Search-Order word set. Also as I wrote most of the 
Forth-94/2012 test suite I may be more familiar with portability pitfalls.

> it's not easy enough for most programmers.  Anyway, I don't
> think that the standards committee can just throw out a standard, and
> then, when programmers fail to write programs that comply with the
> standard, lean back and deplore the lazyness of the programmers;
> instead, we should ask ourselves what we can do to make it easier and
> more attractive for them to write standard programs.

Yes you've already done this with a few things e.g. replacing the 
Forth-95 locals, character constants & prefixes for numbers. This should 
be done for the real difficulties and not just simple things like CHARS 
& 2s complement arithmetic or academic language lawyer things that cause 
no problems in practice. We should start with a list of specific 
problems, Hugh has already listed a few things that I mostly agree with.

-- 
Gerry

Thread

alternatives to `find` Marcos Cruz <use_the_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2015-10-21 20:09 +0000
  Re: alternatives to `find` anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-22 05:54 +0000
    Re: alternatives to `find` Marcos Cruz <use_the_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2015-10-22 15:37 +0000
      Re: alternatives to `find` Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 22:03 -0700
        Re: alternatives to `find` Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 22:14 -0700
          Re: alternatives to `find` hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-23 01:28 -0700
          Re: alternatives to `find` Marcos Cruz <use_the_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2015-10-23 12:12 +0000
          Re: alternatives to `find` anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-26 11:39 +0000
            Re: alternatives to `find` Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 05:14 -0700
        Re: alternatives to `find` Marcos Cruz <use_the_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2015-10-23 12:30 +0000
          Re: alternatives to `find` Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-23 22:52 -0700
            Re: alternatives to `find` Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-23 23:14 -0700
            Re: alternatives to `find` Marcos Cruz <use_the_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2015-10-24 11:15 +0000
              Re: alternatives to `find` Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-10-24 14:34 +0200
                Re: alternatives to `find` anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-24 14:45 +0000
                Re: alternatives to `find` Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-10-24 17:23 +0200
            Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Marcos Cruz <use_the_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2015-10-24 11:53 +0000
              Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 22:48 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-24 21:05 -1000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 01:34 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-24 22:45 -1000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-25 09:16 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-25 08:46 -1000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-25 21:31 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-25 18:50 +0100
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 01:57 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-26 02:07 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 11:14 +0200
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 04:18 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-26 09:22 -1000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-26 21:34 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-26 10:58 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 05:59 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-26 14:58 +0100
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-27 17:09 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-28 12:50 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-28 15:56 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-28 10:31 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-28 19:26 +0100
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-28 12:37 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-28 23:03 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-28 16:21 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-28 20:37 +0100
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-28 23:13 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-29 03:01 +0100
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-29 10:04 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-29 15:29 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 04:17 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-10-30 11:36 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-31 15:25 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-10-31 20:34 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-10-30 20:51 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 01:39 -0800
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 11:12 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-11-02 12:09 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 05:09 -0800
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 06:23 -0800
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 14:39 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-11-20 16:20 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 00:26 -0800
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-31 15:03 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-31 16:35 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-01 14:07 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-01 21:05 +0100
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-31 16:31 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-31 20:33 +0100
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-29 22:27 +0100
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-29 13:19 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-29 10:00 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-29 13:29 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-29 14:04 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-29 16:29 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-29 16:42 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-29 16:13 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) mhx@iae.nl - 2015-10-29 12:19 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-31 14:12 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-31 16:49 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-31 10:33 -0700
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-01 14:14 +0000
                Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-25 21:52 -0700
          Re: alternatives to `find` Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-10-30 12:30 +0000
      Re: alternatives to `find` anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-26 11:47 +0000
  Re: alternatives to `find` Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 06:17 -0800
    Re: alternatives to `find` Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 06:35 -0800
    Re: alternatives to `find` Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-11-02 15:45 +0100
      Re: alternatives to `find` Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 07:17 -0800
        Re: alternatives to `find` Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-11-02 19:39 +0000
          Re: alternatives to `find` Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 12:19 -0800
          Re: alternatives to `find` anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-03 11:31 +0000
            Re: alternatives to `find` Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-11-03 21:11 +0000
              MOVE and CMOVE speed (was: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-04 09:52 +0000

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