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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #40978

Re: RfD: Quotations

From Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: RfD: Quotations
Date 2015-07-30 21:45 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <mpdupl$e5f$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <mp8o6q$plc$1@dont-email.me>

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Alex McDonald wrote:

> It is not possible to define quotations in ISO Forth. The following
> is an outline definition.
> 
> : [: ( -- c: nested-sys )
> postpone ahead :noname ; immediate
> 
> : ;] ( c: nested-sys -- ) ( -- xt )
> postpone ; postpone then ; immediate

If you want to use an outline definition, at least try to get the "add 
runtime" right:

: [: ( -- c:quotation-sys )
  postpone ahead save-definition-state :noname ; immediate
: ;] ( c:quotation-sys -- ) ( -- xt )
  postpone ; >r restore-definition-state
  postpone then r> postpone literal ; immediate

I'd write "a standard programm may not access local variables of the outer 
definition inside the quotation" instead of the ambiguous condition.  Many 
ambiguous conditions are simple error cases (and therefore, quality 
implementations should produce an error), but in this case, you want to 
deliberately allow non-standard programs on non-standard systems to access 
the outer local variables.

Wether that's a good idea is part of the debate, and IMHO there's too much 
debate in that direction.  Quotations are some simple syntactic sugar for 
higher order functions, nothing more.  And the first-class element to pass 
things in Forth is the stack, not outer locals.

My use of quotations like [: foo ; comp: bar ;] would indicate that a 
quotation-sys is (and must be) actually a ( c:nest c:colon ) pair (or 
triple, including the orig from AHEAD), but that use can be non-standard, 
too, like the access to outer locals.

Reference implementations, even incomplete, like the above (leaving save-
definition-state and restore-definition-state to the implementer) are 
usually used as inspiration for both implementations and use.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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Thread

RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-28 21:22 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 07:35 +0000
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 14:20 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 13:44 +0300
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 13:42 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 05:35 -0700
    Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 13:34 +0000
      Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 07:35 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 15:05 +0000
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 16:19 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-29 21:48 +0100
      Re: RfD: Quotations mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-29 11:13 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-30 13:04 +0000
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 15:07 +0100
      Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 07:44 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 15:12 +0000
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 16:18 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-29 18:37 +0200
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 17:55 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-29 19:51 -0500
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 03:31 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 19:30 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 21:19 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 21:37 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-30 11:45 +0000
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-30 08:07 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-31 10:54 +0000
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 12:48 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-31 05:40 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 14:46 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 14:50 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-31 14:46 +0000
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-31 13:16 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 21:49 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 22:42 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-30 08:46 -0500
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 21:40 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 10:01 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 12:00 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 11:10 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-07-30 16:35 +0200
            Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 16:53 +0000
          Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-29 19:03 +0200
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 18:24 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 01:38 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:10 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 12:06 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 11:21 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 14:00 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 06:59 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 10:53 +0100
            Re: RfD: Quotations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-29 10:35 -0700
              Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 01:45 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 03:17 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 19:21 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-29 23:04 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 12:38 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 12:09 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 13:26 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 09:47 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-31 02:51 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 11:21 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:11 +0100
            Re: RfD: Quotations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-29 11:36 -0700
              Re: RfD: Quotations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-29 11:37 -0700
            Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-30 13:07 +0000
              Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 16:25 +0200
          Re: RfD: Quotations mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-29 11:16 -0700
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 20:27 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-29 21:57 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 22:48 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-31 12:34 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 13:00 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-31 14:31 +0000
                Re: RfD: Quotations mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-31 11:32 -0700
              Re: RfD: Quotations mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-29 21:42 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:57 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 17:21 -0700
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:56 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 04:15 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 12:30 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 05:04 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 13:07 -0700
  Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 16:52 -0700
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:53 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-07-30 21:45 +0200
    Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 13:25 -0700
      Re: RfD: Quotations Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2015-07-30 15:11 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 09:11 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-31 12:04 +0100
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 22:51 +0100
      Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 22:38 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-07-31 02:10 -0400
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 09:01 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-01 14:59 -0700
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-08-01 23:36 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-02 01:19 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-01 18:27 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-09 14:34 -0700
  Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-31 08:52 +0000
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 11:57 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-31 21:42 +0100
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 22:25 +0100
      Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-31 23:39 +0100
        Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-08-01 10:59 +0100
    Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-01 14:18 +0000
      Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-01 22:10 +0200
        Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-02 05:36 +0000
          Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-08-03 16:40 +0100
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-08-03 18:02 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-08-03 20:22 +0100
            Re: RfD: Quotations Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-08-04 02:10 +0200
              Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-08-04 08:49 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-01 15:15 -0700

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