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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #40925

Re: RfD: Quotations

From Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: RfD: Quotations
Date 2015-07-30 01:38 +0200
Organization news.netcologne.de
Message-ID <mpbo6b$bkf$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <mpamku$vv5$1@dont-email.me> <675f315e-17ca-4fbd-93bb-79ce8e9eae86@googlegroups.com> <mpaqpu$hc6$1@dont-email.me> <mpb11c$qj4$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> <mpb25r$fg4$1@dont-email.me>

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Am 29.07.2015 um 19:24 schrieb Alex McDonald:
> on 29/07/2015 18:03:44, Bernd Linsel wrote:
>> On 29/07/2015 17:18, Alex McDonald wrote:> on 29/07/2015 15:44:03,
>> Raimond Dragomir wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That now means we have to standardise an XT that "must execute
>> within the
>>>>> scope of the caller and can't be saved for later". This is not how
>>>>> :NONAME and : work, and quotations are designed "to have the same
>>>>> privileges as words defined with : and :NONAME". Users and
>> implementers >>> are being advised here that supporting this type of
>> XT is non-standard. >>> But as is usual with Forth, they can do what
>> they wish outside of the >>> standard.
>>>>>
>>>> Why do you want to make it an umbiguous condition? Just say that
>> the >> outer locals are not visible and that's it. At least people
>> will know >> what the rule is. Compilers will throw an error that the
>> "x" is an >> unknown word and everybody is happy.
>>>
>>> Someone may wish to implement, as Hugh and I have done, a system
>> that > allow reference to outer locals as long as the quotation isn't
>> executed > out of the execution scope of its parent. Why would you
>> want to disallow > that? The way this proposal is worded allows
>> systems to offer more than > the standard or the standard alone.
>>
>> Why not make a compromise?
>>
>> Outer words' locals are visible, and when referenced within the
>> quotation, they are copied into a dedicated "static variable area"
>> (term borrowed from C, and "static" shall be understood as in C)
>> belonging to the quotation (and living as long as the quotation
>> itself).
>
> The quotation is code; it lives forever. The static copy would be a
> scoped global. We have those already as names of variables defined in
> wordlists.
>
>>
>> Subsequent changes to the variable made by the quotation don't affect
>> the parent's local, but the quotation's own 'static' copy.
>
> That is the same as using global variables. Locals fix a well understood
> problem when using globals; re-entrancy and recursion to name but two.
>

That's admittedly true.
In fact, they are global variables, and not re-entrant. Just syntactic 
sugar, as quotations are as a whole.

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RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-28 21:22 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 07:35 +0000
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 14:20 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 13:44 +0300
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 13:42 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 05:35 -0700
    Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 13:34 +0000
      Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 07:35 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 15:05 +0000
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 16:19 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-29 21:48 +0100
      Re: RfD: Quotations mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-29 11:13 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-30 13:04 +0000
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 15:07 +0100
      Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 07:44 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 15:12 +0000
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 16:18 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-29 18:37 +0200
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 17:55 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-29 19:51 -0500
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 03:31 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 19:30 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 21:19 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 21:37 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-30 11:45 +0000
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-30 08:07 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-31 10:54 +0000
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 12:48 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-31 05:40 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 14:46 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 14:50 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-31 14:46 +0000
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-31 13:16 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 21:49 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 22:42 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-30 08:46 -0500
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 21:40 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 10:01 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 12:00 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 11:10 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-07-30 16:35 +0200
            Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 16:53 +0000
          Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-29 19:03 +0200
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 18:24 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 01:38 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:10 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 12:06 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 11:21 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 14:00 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 06:59 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 10:53 +0100
            Re: RfD: Quotations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-29 10:35 -0700
              Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 01:45 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 03:17 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 19:21 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-29 23:04 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 12:38 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 12:09 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 13:26 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 09:47 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-31 02:51 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 11:21 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:11 +0100
            Re: RfD: Quotations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-29 11:36 -0700
              Re: RfD: Quotations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-29 11:37 -0700
            Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-30 13:07 +0000
              Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 16:25 +0200
          Re: RfD: Quotations mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-29 11:16 -0700
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 20:27 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-29 21:57 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 22:48 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-31 12:34 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 13:00 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-31 14:31 +0000
                Re: RfD: Quotations mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-31 11:32 -0700
              Re: RfD: Quotations mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-29 21:42 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:57 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 17:21 -0700
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:56 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 04:15 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 12:30 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 05:04 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 13:07 -0700
  Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 16:52 -0700
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:53 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-07-30 21:45 +0200
    Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 13:25 -0700
      Re: RfD: Quotations Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2015-07-30 15:11 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 09:11 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-31 12:04 +0100
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 22:51 +0100
      Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 22:38 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-07-31 02:10 -0400
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 09:01 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-01 14:59 -0700
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-08-01 23:36 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-02 01:19 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-01 18:27 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-09 14:34 -0700
  Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-31 08:52 +0000
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 11:57 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-31 21:42 +0100
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 22:25 +0100
      Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-31 23:39 +0100
        Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-08-01 10:59 +0100
    Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-01 14:18 +0000
      Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-01 22:10 +0200
        Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-02 05:36 +0000
          Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-08-03 16:40 +0100
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-08-03 18:02 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-08-03 20:22 +0100
            Re: RfD: Quotations Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-08-04 02:10 +0200
              Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-08-04 08:49 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-01 15:15 -0700

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