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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #41005

Re: RfD: Quotations

From "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: RfD: Quotations
Date 2015-07-31 11:21 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <mpfi55$fe0$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <mpcurt$2us$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> <mpd0hq$l2h$1@dont-email.me> <mpd1kq$4vf$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> <mpfckq$sh5$1@dont-email.me> <a68052f8-5c66-4c85-ba80-3d5827dc2265@googlegroups.com>

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on 31/07/2015 10:51:44, Raimond Dragomir wrote:

> 
> This discussion is going wild.
> 
> If you access a local variable that has gone out of scope this is
> undefined behaviour. It has nothing to do with quotations. It's about
> the local variables. And this doesn't have to be declared ambiguous
> condition. It's undefined behaviour.

The discussion about "ambiguous" is the one that's been going wild for
quite a while on clf. It's unambigously nuts, and it's being driven by a
complete misunderstanding and some individuals with a "I hate the ANS
Forth standard and all its subscribers" attitude.

And now you want to invent new language. The specification does not
contain a single example of the phrase "undefined behavio[u]r". It says
"ambiguous condition: A circumstance for which this standard does not
prescribe a specific behavior". The RfD process is quite specific: "If
you want to leave something open to the system implementor, make that
explicit, e.g., by making it an ambiguous condition." 

Too many people seem to be getting hung up on their own personal
interpretation of "ambiguous", and some have decided that because
specifications are supposed to be precise and define stuff so there's no
wiggle room, ambiguous is bad. (Or, as in one notable case, if they have
an irrational dislike of what it says.)

It's not bad, on two counts. Firstly, what is meant by ambiguous is
clearly defined in the specification and RfD process. Secondly, no
specification can provide the rigour demanded by some without prescribing
the implementation and possibly getting it so tight that it's
unimplementable in the real world.

Can we move on from this please?

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Thread

RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-28 21:22 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 07:35 +0000
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 14:20 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 13:44 +0300
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 13:42 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 05:35 -0700
    Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 13:34 +0000
      Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 07:35 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 15:05 +0000
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 16:19 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-29 21:48 +0100
      Re: RfD: Quotations mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-29 11:13 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-30 13:04 +0000
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 15:07 +0100
      Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 07:44 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 15:12 +0000
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 16:18 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-29 18:37 +0200
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 17:55 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-29 19:51 -0500
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 03:31 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 19:30 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 21:19 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 21:37 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-30 11:45 +0000
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-30 08:07 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-31 10:54 +0000
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 12:48 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-31 05:40 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 14:46 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 14:50 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-31 14:46 +0000
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-31 13:16 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 21:49 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 22:42 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-30 08:46 -0500
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 21:40 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 10:01 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 12:00 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 11:10 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-07-30 16:35 +0200
            Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-29 16:53 +0000
          Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-29 19:03 +0200
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 18:24 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 01:38 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:10 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 12:06 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 11:21 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 14:00 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 06:59 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 10:53 +0100
            Re: RfD: Quotations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-29 10:35 -0700
              Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 01:45 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 03:17 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 19:21 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-29 23:04 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 12:38 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 12:09 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 13:26 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 09:47 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-31 02:51 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 11:21 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:11 +0100
            Re: RfD: Quotations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-29 11:36 -0700
              Re: RfD: Quotations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-29 11:37 -0700
            Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-30 13:07 +0000
              Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-07-30 16:25 +0200
          Re: RfD: Quotations mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-29 11:16 -0700
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 20:27 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-29 21:57 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-29 22:48 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-31 12:34 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 13:00 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-31 14:31 +0000
                Re: RfD: Quotations mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-31 11:32 -0700
              Re: RfD: Quotations mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-29 21:42 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:57 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 17:21 -0700
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:56 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 04:15 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 12:30 +0100
                Re: RfD: Quotations franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 05:04 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 13:07 -0700
  Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-29 16:52 -0700
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 09:53 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-07-30 21:45 +0200
    Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 13:25 -0700
      Re: RfD: Quotations Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2015-07-30 15:11 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 09:11 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-31 12:04 +0100
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-30 22:51 +0100
      Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-30 22:38 -0700
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-07-31 02:10 -0400
        Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 09:01 +0100
          Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-01 14:59 -0700
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-08-01 23:36 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-02 01:19 +0200
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-01 18:27 -0700
                Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-09 14:34 -0700
  Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-31 08:52 +0000
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 11:57 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-31 21:42 +0100
    Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-31 22:25 +0100
      Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-07-31 23:39 +0100
        Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-08-01 10:59 +0100
    Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-01 14:18 +0000
      Re: RfD: Quotations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-01 22:10 +0200
        Re: RfD: Quotations anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-02 05:36 +0000
          Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-08-03 16:40 +0100
            Re: RfD: Quotations "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-08-03 18:02 +0100
              Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-08-03 20:22 +0100
            Re: RfD: Quotations Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-08-04 02:10 +0200
              Re: RfD: Quotations Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-08-04 08:49 +0100
  Re: RfD: Quotations hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-01 15:15 -0700

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