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Re: What is greenarrays up to lately?

From rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: What is greenarrays up to lately?
Date 2015-03-21 21:14 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <mel502$tmu$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <20150316194214.6ff8abb8@T60A> <mea2ks$n57$2@dont-email.me> <20150319112440.0e202ee8@T60A> <meg6ma$nv9$1@dont-email.me> <20150321230320.13111083@T60A>

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On 3/21/2015 7:03 PM, Jan Coombs <Jan-54 wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 00:12:44 -0400
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/19/2015 7:24 AM, Jan Coombs <Jan-54 wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 16:26:53 -0400
>>> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/16/2015 3:42 PM, Jan Coombs <Jan-54 wrote:
>>>>    >
>>>>    > It's a bit more exciting if the simulation can export
>>>>    > the design to the FPGA tools, then you are closer to
>>>>    > having a chip.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what that means.  What design?  The chip or the code?
>>>
>>> Both.  The simulator consumes the source code for the
>>> hardware design.  One file of which contains a simulation
>>> model for the target processor code ROM, and also FPGA
>>> chip family dependant code to initialize a matching RAM
>>> block on the chip.
>>
>> This is not clear to me at all.
>
> Anton writes a lot, it's his job.  I've only read a little of
> his work, but treasure a throwaway comment of his:
>
>   'Some things have to be seen to be believed, but
>    Most things have to be believed to be seen'
>
> The hardware development approach and prime tool I use are very
> different.  If you want to know how I do it, you might have to
> believe that the new methods I'm using could be good choices.
>
> I've read our postings through quite a few times, and checked the
> link to the tools which I gave, which gives extensive details of
> the tool and rationale, but still fail to see what is not clear.

The statements I was replying to and are quoted above are not clear to 
me.  I have no idea what is meant by "The simulator consumes the source 
code for the hardware design."  "Consuming" is not a term I often use 
with the design process.  Input is more common and is clear to me.  Is 
that what you mean?

Your description of what I think are the input files to the design 
process is not at all clear to me.  I have never thought of the design 
files as being separated by RAM and ROM.  I just don't understand what 
you are describing.  Are you trying to say there is an HDL file for the 
processor and there is a separate file which contains the instruction 
opcodes that are to be loaded into the program memory?  Perhaps you are 
describing a process where the program RAM can be loaded separately from 
the processor design to prevent having to change the bitstream file each 
time the program changes?

The original remark I didn't understand is:

 > It's a bit more exciting if the simulation can export the design to 
the FPGA tools, then you are closer to having a chip.

Here I don't understand the idea that a simulator would export a design. 
  A simulator has a design as its input.  The FPGA tools would use that 
same design to generate the bitstream for the FPGA.  Simulation is just 
a way to verifying the design does what you want before you program it 
into a chip.

I think you have an image in your mind of what you are talking about and 
I can't reconstruct that from what you write.

I thought we were talking about a simulator that is for testing code 
written for a given processor.  You seem to be talking about a simulator 
for the HDL that describes a processor.  The former is often much more 
efficient at running code while the latter is useful for debugging the 
processor design itself.

Are you describing a different development model?  Can you be a little 
more clear in your use of terms?

BTW, your quote from Anton did not help me understand any of this at all.

-- 

Rick

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Thread

What is greenarrays up to lately? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2015-03-11 21:54 -0700
  Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-15 14:08 -0700
    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-15 19:10 -0700
      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 21:58 -0700
        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-17 12:19 -0700
          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-17 13:24 -0700
    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-16 18:03 +0000
    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-16 19:42 +0000
      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:26 -0400
        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-19 11:24 +0000
          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:12 -0400
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-21 23:03 +0000
              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 21:14 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-22 00:38 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 18:35 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 16:18 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-23 01:06 +0100
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 22:20 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-23 08:02 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 16:13 -0400
                Offer + Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-04-08 09:51 +0100
                Re: Offer + Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 00:47 -0400
    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:24 -0400
      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-17 13:57 -0700
        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-17 14:36 -0700
          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-17 16:36 -0700
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 07:00 -0700
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-18 15:54 -0700
              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 19:27 -0400
              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-18 16:44 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 20:24 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-19 07:22 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-19 22:20 +0000
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-20 00:14 +0100
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:24 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-03-20 15:30 +0000
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:49 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 09:04 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-20 20:32 +0100
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 12:31 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-20 19:44 +0100
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:20 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:22 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 03:07 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:41 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 12:49 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-21 13:29 +0000
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 12:43 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-20 09:48 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-19 07:34 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-19 13:23 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:51 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-20 21:05 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 04:04 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 09:16 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 14:02 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:39 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-19 07:15 -0700
          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-18 00:09 -0700
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-18 00:23 -0700
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-03-19 23:40 +0000
        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 23:16 -0400
    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-18 11:05 +0000
  Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 22:38 -0400

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