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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #37557
| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? |
| Date | 2015-03-22 18:35 -0400 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <meng1u$m39$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (4 earlier) <20150319112440.0e202ee8@T60A> <meg6ma$nv9$1@dont-email.me> <20150321230320.13111083@T60A> <mel502$tmu$1@dont-email.me> <529f91ef-0c38-444e-be8b-59cdd39687de@googlegroups.com> |
On 3/22/2015 3:38 AM, JUERGEN wrote: > On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 1:14:29 AM UTC, rickman wrote: >> On 3/21/2015 7:03 PM, Jan Coombs <Jan-54 wrote: >>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 00:12:44 -0400 >>> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 3/19/2015 7:24 AM, Jan Coombs <Jan-54 wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 16:26:53 -0400 >>>>> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 3/16/2015 3:42 PM, Jan Coombs <Jan-54 wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > It's a bit more exciting if the simulation can export >>>>>> > the design to the FPGA tools, then you are closer to >>>>>> > having a chip. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure what that means. What design? The chip or the code? >>>>> >>>>> Both. The simulator consumes the source code for the >>>>> hardware design. One file of which contains a simulation >>>>> model for the target processor code ROM, and also FPGA >>>>> chip family dependant code to initialize a matching RAM >>>>> block on the chip. >>>> >>>> This is not clear to me at all. >>> >>> Anton writes a lot, it's his job. I've only read a little of >>> his work, but treasure a throwaway comment of his: >>> >>> 'Some things have to be seen to be believed, but >>> Most things have to be believed to be seen' >>> >>> The hardware development approach and prime tool I use are very >>> different. If you want to know how I do it, you might have to >>> believe that the new methods I'm using could be good choices. >>> >>> I've read our postings through quite a few times, and checked the >>> link to the tools which I gave, which gives extensive details of >>> the tool and rationale, but still fail to see what is not clear. >> >> The statements I was replying to and are quoted above are not clear to >> me. I have no idea what is meant by "The simulator consumes the source >> code for the hardware design." "Consuming" is not a term I often use >> with the design process. Input is more common and is clear to me. Is >> that what you mean? >> >> Your description of what I think are the input files to the design >> process is not at all clear to me. I have never thought of the design >> files as being separated by RAM and ROM. I just don't understand what >> you are describing. Are you trying to say there is an HDL file for the >> processor and there is a separate file which contains the instruction >> opcodes that are to be loaded into the program memory? Perhaps you are >> describing a process where the program RAM can be loaded separately from >> the processor design to prevent having to change the bitstream file each >> time the program changes? >> >> The original remark I didn't understand is: >> >> > It's a bit more exciting if the simulation can export the design to >> the FPGA tools, then you are closer to having a chip. >> >> Here I don't understand the idea that a simulator would export a design. >> A simulator has a design as its input. The FPGA tools would use that >> same design to generate the bitstream for the FPGA. Simulation is just >> a way to verifying the design does what you want before you program it >> into a chip. >> >> I think you have an image in your mind of what you are talking about and >> I can't reconstruct that from what you write. >> >> I thought we were talking about a simulator that is for testing code >> written for a given processor. You seem to be talking about a simulator >> for the HDL that describes a processor. The former is often much more >> efficient at running code while the latter is useful for debugging the >> processor design itself. >> >> Are you describing a different development model? Can you be a little >> more clear in your use of terms? >> >> BTW, your quote from Anton did not help me understand any of this at all. >> >> -- >> >> Rick > > Rick, I would have to assume you allow for some slack in language. I'm not sure which language you mean, the language you are talking in or the language you are talking about simulating. > Simulator written in SW ( any language - even Forth ) then the same running model transferred to the FPGA. Why do this? The established method is to code your processor description in an HDL (as I said, there are several with VHDL and Verilog being the most popular) and simulate it using an HDL simulator. At that point you have a complete description of the processor design which can be synthesized to bits for an FPGA or a layout for a chip design. What is the reason for abandoning this method? It works well and has lots of precedence meaning there are very usable tools available. > You could use Impulse with C to Fpga, or rewrite in VHDL/Verilog. > > On the PC is running what is required. > - or you partition the design and move it to the FPGA in slices/blocks, the rest on the PC. > > Has anybody done a Forth that compiles to FPGA? > C to FPGA has been done a few times - see Impulse and Celoxica. I have thought about Forth to generate hardware. It would not be "descriptive" as in typical HDLs where you describe the behavior and let the tool figure out the implementation. It would be descriptive by describing the logical elements and you build hierarchically like a Forth program. Simulation is done by recompiling with a primitives library for simulation rather than synthesis. I have not taken the first step in realizing this. -- Rick
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What is greenarrays up to lately? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2015-03-11 21:54 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-15 14:08 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-15 19:10 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 21:58 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-17 12:19 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-17 13:24 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-16 18:03 +0000
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-16 19:42 +0000
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:26 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-19 11:24 +0000
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:12 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-21 23:03 +0000
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 21:14 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-22 00:38 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 18:35 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 16:18 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-23 01:06 +0100
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 22:20 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-23 08:02 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 16:13 -0400
Offer + Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-04-08 09:51 +0100
Re: Offer + Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 00:47 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:24 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-17 13:57 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-17 14:36 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-17 16:36 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 07:00 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-18 15:54 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 19:27 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-18 16:44 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 20:24 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-19 07:22 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-19 22:20 +0000
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-20 00:14 +0100
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:24 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-03-20 15:30 +0000
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:49 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 09:04 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-20 20:32 +0100
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 12:31 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-20 19:44 +0100
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:20 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:22 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 03:07 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:41 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 12:49 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-21 13:29 +0000
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 12:43 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-20 09:48 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-19 07:34 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-19 13:23 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:51 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-20 21:05 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 04:04 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 09:16 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 14:02 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:39 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-19 07:15 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-18 00:09 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-18 00:23 -0700
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-03-19 23:40 +0000
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 23:16 -0400
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-18 11:05 +0000
Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 22:38 -0400
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