Re: What is greenarrays up to lately?

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: What is greenarrays up to lately?
Date	2015-03-22 22:20 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<ment7b$vl$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <mel502$tmu$1@dont-email.me> <529f91ef-0c38-444e-be8b-59cdd39687de@googlegroups.com> <meng1u$m39$1@dont-email.me> <87wq288vuw.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <menlbu$ade$2@dont-email.me>

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On 3/22/2015 8:06 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>
>> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>> I have thought about Forth to generate hardware.  It would not be
>>> "descriptive" as in typical HDLs where you describe the behavior and
>>> let the tool figure out the implementation.  It would be descriptive
>>> by describing the logical elements and you build hierarchically like a
>>> Forth program.
>>
>> That is basically what OKAD is, I believe.  The target is custom silicon
>> rather than FPGA equtions.
>
> FPGAs have primitives like LUTs, flip-flops, and routing resources.  If you
> want to go the bottom up way on the FPGA, you would describe LUT functions,
> and build your more complex logic from assembling more LUTs.

Back in the old days we did FPGA design using schematic drawings.  They 
were usually hierarchical.  More advanced drawings were essentially 
macros with parameters that could specify bus width, relative placement 
and other important features.  One person I knew was able to squeeze out 
the maximum performance by doing hand placement using these macros.  He 
initially resisted the change over to HDL until the FPGA apps engineers 
showed him he could do the same sort of hierarchical design in VHDL 
complete with all the Xilinx specific parameters.  He never looked back, 
lol.

I'm not crazy about logic inference (letting the compiler choose how to 
implement your code).  But that is how 99% of designs get done.  It can 
be a lot of work hand crafting FPGAs.  I can't see the benefit in 
designing your own language for FPGA design.  I expect custom chip 
design is different and for a simple chip, hand crafting can get you a 
lot.  But there is no way you could hand craft a large complex chip 
unless it was very regular like the GA144 or an FPGA.  Heck, even FPGAs 
are getting pretty complex these days with many specialized function 
blocks and hard cores.  I don't suppose they hand craft much of that.

If the GA144 had some hard macro functions like 480 Mbps USB or 100 Mbps 
Ethernet, it would be a much more useful device, but would have been 
much harder to design.

-- 

Rick

Thread

What is greenarrays up to lately? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2015-03-11 21:54 -0700
  Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-15 14:08 -0700
    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-15 19:10 -0700
      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 21:58 -0700
        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-17 12:19 -0700
          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-17 13:24 -0700
    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-16 18:03 +0000
    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-16 19:42 +0000
      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:26 -0400
        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-19 11:24 +0000
          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:12 -0400
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-21 23:03 +0000
              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 21:14 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-22 00:38 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 18:35 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 16:18 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-23 01:06 +0100
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 22:20 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-23 08:02 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 16:13 -0400
                Offer + Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-04-08 09:51 +0100
                Re: Offer + Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 00:47 -0400
    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:24 -0400
      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-17 13:57 -0700
        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-17 14:36 -0700
          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-17 16:36 -0700
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 07:00 -0700
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-18 15:54 -0700
              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 19:27 -0400
              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-18 16:44 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 20:24 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-19 07:22 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-19 22:20 +0000
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-20 00:14 +0100
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:24 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-03-20 15:30 +0000
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:49 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 09:04 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-20 20:32 +0100
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 12:31 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-20 19:44 +0100
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:20 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:22 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 03:07 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:41 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 12:49 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-21 13:29 +0000
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 12:43 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-20 09:48 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-19 07:34 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-19 13:23 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:51 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-20 21:05 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 04:04 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 09:16 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 14:02 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:39 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-19 07:15 -0700
          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-18 00:09 -0700
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-18 00:23 -0700
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-03-19 23:40 +0000
        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 23:16 -0400
    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-18 11:05 +0000
  Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 22:38 -0400

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