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Groups > comp.lang.python > #80777
| Date | 2014-11-14 10:18 -0800 |
|---|---|
| From | Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> |
| Subject | Re: I love assert |
| References | <96c138e4-ab95-4e5f-a0c8-e696b5a926bb@googlegroups.com> <cf68f3b4-3312-4dda-a224-8f30f7b31b55@googlegroups.com> <87a93wqeq3.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <mailman.15744.1415829173.18130.python-list@python.org> <5465e887$0$12976$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Message-ID | <mailman.15827.1415989114.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink) |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/14/2014 03:33 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > I agree with Marko in this case. Marko's example of defensive programming is very similar to the one I gave in my > essay here: > > http://import-that.dreamwidth.org/676.html > > You're correct of course that under the circumstances you describe the code will fail. But that is no different > from the scenario: > > "a new status is added, the code is not modified to handle it, no tests are written to check the code is correct > (or if the tests are written, the test suite is not run), and then the code is released at which point it fails" I am reminded of a Star Treck episode (Deep Space 9?) in which a Klingon is mocking the Federation tech for having three backups, instead of only two, to which the Federation tech replies, "When the second one fails, I wouldn't want to be without my tertiary backup!" My point being: a safety net that is so easily disabled does not count (IMHO) as a backup. > If your process is so poor that you release code without running it with asserts enabled, then assert will not save > you from bugs. This is one my very few complaints about Python: running it normally is the same as running with DEBUG turned on, so the unusual case is remembering to run with asserts turned /off/. > Assertions are just a tool, not a panacea. Right -- and using it is like using a rock when what you need is a ball-peen hammer. ;) - -- ~Ethan~ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJUZkdzAAoJENZ7D1rrH75Nl9YQALx9UIAxYzlzH04EoMlILErb 0wz5xNhTM2JmF3csJPi3pQSpEr1XpHhWjFZYsFoPB24I8bN7tGALb91+ME7ElHgw WP6Z+AVPuHCRxTG/oteK72+f5S+SN6zV1ECwrUuWxqIt5CHzYFtQjRKvEinNDtaT xKtEfYZdrZFeqo7ssV2gHprDd1QFIAygLMbIlwke6nT/TdMGmw/wG9LQtpfSnrQc 4BeFoeYM3OL+hxHUNfYJI9cGL7skykU3EHnuFqNbhA6QhGawvBqUhVDGoFFDkJ/e AX6AGk5Fu9cvjEFTzRQJzW4S5s6nD4dYM7Z93GfD9G9KBmfzQNM1pBA3yqxf0S8Q CWTWBs8pPkYe/G1Y/WOn7lzYQdMneIGUNnHR8fnABKPPf5IeTXabkWgtVnq1g5Ty DVcg/47G8gBMOTz5DD08iigu4f2bsNGowFoAkCDsbNmzjmxODGSUoj1ph/4xg6HP HbuEQZXwNZXmlP9ZcLoxjCKdBdRJo3JZ4hAf6kVj4VT4y438GL2dI0/KIUSDWgYE B0mCsQ7WYm80AvfpYR7fJoZsd/5jXe7RCLHanNLIZff3LupdFZri5E246KloUBj+ 3Jw3HgwME6wyDshiHtsS5tuDcANvow+PICA+wn2KmU9Mn2JNwsG3D98ZFJfXp0JR eG/Pg7cgQhrjhFqe6cgO =EoEX -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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I love assert Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2014-11-11 11:40 -0800
Re: I love assert Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-11-12 07:03 +1100
Re: I love assert Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-11-11 21:43 +0000
Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-11 12:08 -0800
Re: I love assert Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@technologyhighland.invalid> - 2014-11-11 12:20 -0800
Re: I love assert Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-11-11 20:34 +0000
Re: I love assert TP <wingusr@gmail.com> - 2014-11-11 12:57 -0800
Re: I love assert Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-11-11 17:34 -0500
Re: I love assert Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-11-12 09:52 +1100
Re: I love assert Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-11-11 17:03 -0600
Re: I love assert Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2014-11-11 15:02 -0800
Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-11 15:38 -0800
Re: I love assert Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-11-11 17:56 -0800
Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 13:21 +1100
Re: I love assert Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-11-12 13:35 +1100
Re: I love assert Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-11-12 14:10 +0000
Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 13:44 +1100
Re: I love assert wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-11 23:14 -0800
Re: I love assert Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-11-12 03:29 -0500
Re: I love assert Anton <anton.schattenfeld@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 12:53 -0800
Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-12 23:41 +0200
Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-12 13:52 -0800
Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-12 23:56 +0200
Re: I love assert Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 15:04 -0700
Re: I love assert Anton <anschatten@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 14:13 -0800
Re: I love assert Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 15:41 -0700
Re: I love assert Anton <anschatten@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 14:48 -0800
Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-13 01:01 +0200
Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-15 10:40 +1100
Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-15 02:12 +0200
Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-15 12:04 +1100
Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-15 03:30 +0200
Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-15 12:48 +1100
Re: I love assert Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-11-14 20:14 -0600
Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-15 13:16 +1100
Re: I love assert albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-11-29 17:35 +0000
Re: I love assert Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 16:02 -0700
Re: I love assert Anton <anschatten@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 15:43 -0800
Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-13 10:10 +1100
Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-13 01:23 +0200
Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-13 10:27 +1100
Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-13 01:31 +0200
Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-12 14:47 -0800
Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-14 22:37 +1100
Re: I love assert Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-14 09:40 -0700
Re: I love assert Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 15:07 -0700
Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-13 00:47 +0200
Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-12 14:56 -0800
Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-13 09:58 +1100
Re: I love assert Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 16:05 -0700
Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-13 01:12 +0200
Re: I love assert Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2014-11-14 01:09 +1100
Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-14 22:33 +1100
Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-14 10:18 -0800
Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-14 21:12 +0200
Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-14 12:41 -0800
Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-14 22:50 +0200
Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-15 13:58 +1100
Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-14 20:09 -0800
Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-17 13:09 +1100
Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-16 19:25 -0800
Re: I love assert Anton <anschatten@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 14:00 -0800
Re: I love assert Anton <anschatten@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 14:04 -0800
Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-13 00:34 +0200
Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-13 09:43 +1100
Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-14 22:15 +1100
Re: I love assert Richard Riehle <rriehle@itu.edu> - 2014-11-14 14:09 -0800
Decorators (was: Re: I love assert) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-15 00:18 +0200
Re: Decorators Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-11-14 22:37 +0000
Re: Decorators Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-15 00:47 +0200
Re: Decorators (was: Re: I love assert) Richard Riehle <rriehle@itu.edu> - 2014-11-14 18:19 -0800
Re: Decorators (was: Re: I love assert) Mayank Tripathi <oquanox@gmail.com> - 2014-11-15 02:36 +0000
Re: Decorators (was: Re: I love assert) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-11-14 20:30 -0600
Re: Decorators Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-15 09:00 +0200
Re: Decorators Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-11-15 15:32 +0000
Re: Decorators (was: Re: I love assert) Richard Riehle <rriehle@itu.edu> - 2014-11-14 23:42 -0800
Re: Decorators Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-11-15 13:12 +0000
Re: Decorators Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-15 15:24 +0200
Re: Decorators Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-11-15 15:28 -0500
Re: Decorators (was: Re: I love assert) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-16 02:39 +1100
Re: I love assert TP <wingusr@gmail.com> - 2014-11-27 01:22 -0800
Re: I love assert alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-11-27 09:59 +0000
Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-29 12:30 +1100
Re: I love assert MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-11-29 02:56 +0000
Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-29 20:31 +1100
Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-29 21:40 +1100
Re: I love assert MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-11-29 19:49 +0000
Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-29 14:02 +1100
Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-29 14:33 -0800
Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-30 19:18 +1100
Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-30 11:34 -0800
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