Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #80588

Re: I love assert

From Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au>
Subject Re: I love assert
Date 2014-11-12 13:35 +1100
References <96c138e4-ab95-4e5f-a0c8-e696b5a926bb@googlegroups.com> <85389pcxn5.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <CAPTjJmoWqRC2EfGtV=-q97XGpXkd=PygZisfTthynr1E860uuw@mail.gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.15711.1415759768.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

Show all headers | View raw

Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 7:03 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> > An ‘assert’ statement in the code will sometimes be active, and
> > sometimes be a no-op, for *exactly* the same code under different
> > circumstances. That's a trap for the reader, and I'd rather not set
> > it.
>
> This is no worse than other forms of preprocessor magic.

That other languages do it doesn't argue in favour of it. It argues,
rather, that we should be glad not to have it in our Python code.

> Again, not materially different from assert, and plenty of projects
> have this. Maybe people just need to understand "assert == DEBUG" and
> all's clear?

The more things people need to keep in mind when reading my code that
isn't stated explicitly in the code, the worse I consider the code to
be.

Python is a small, clear, expressive language. It has the valuable
property that one does not need to keep in mind a lot of reminders of
unexpected behaviour; good Python code behaves as it explicitly says it
will, with very few implied surprises.

To preserve this valuable but fragile property, I recommend treating
‘assert’ as a clever but obfuscatory trick, opposed to that property of
Python. So an ‘assert’ statement should, IMO, not remain in the code
past a debugging session.

-- 
 \          “The entertainment industry calls DRM "security" software, |
  `\         because it makes them secure from their customers.” —Cory |
_o__)                                             Doctorow, 2014-02-05 |
Ben Finney

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

I love assert Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2014-11-11 11:40 -0800
  Re: I love assert Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-11-12 07:03 +1100
    Re: I love assert Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-11-11 21:43 +0000
  Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-11 12:08 -0800
  Re: I love assert Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@technologyhighland.invalid> - 2014-11-11 12:20 -0800
  Re: I love assert Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-11-11 20:34 +0000
  Re: I love assert TP <wingusr@gmail.com> - 2014-11-11 12:57 -0800
  Re: I love assert Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-11-11 17:34 -0500
  Re: I love assert Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-11-12 09:52 +1100
  Re: I love assert Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-11-11 17:03 -0600
  Re: I love assert Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2014-11-11 15:02 -0800
  Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-11 15:38 -0800
  Re: I love assert Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-11-11 17:56 -0800
  Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 13:21 +1100
  Re: I love assert Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-11-12 13:35 +1100
    Re: I love assert Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-11-12 14:10 +0000
  Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 13:44 +1100
    Re: I love assert wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-11 23:14 -0800
  Re: I love assert Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-11-12 03:29 -0500
  Re: I love assert Anton <anton.schattenfeld@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 12:53 -0800
    Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-12 23:41 +0200
      Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-12 13:52 -0800
        Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-12 23:56 +0200
          Re: I love assert Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 15:04 -0700
            Re: I love assert Anton <anschatten@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 14:13 -0800
              Re: I love assert Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 15:41 -0700
                Re: I love assert Anton <anschatten@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 14:48 -0800
                Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-13 01:01 +0200
                Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-15 10:40 +1100
                Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-15 02:12 +0200
                Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-15 12:04 +1100
                Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-15 03:30 +0200
                Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-15 12:48 +1100
                Re: I love assert Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-11-14 20:14 -0600
                Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-15 13:16 +1100
                Re: I love assert albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-11-29 17:35 +0000
                Re: I love assert Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 16:02 -0700
                Re: I love assert Anton <anschatten@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 15:43 -0800
                Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-13 10:10 +1100
                Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-13 01:23 +0200
                Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-13 10:27 +1100
                Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-13 01:31 +0200
              Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-12 14:47 -0800
                Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-14 22:37 +1100
                Re: I love assert Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-14 09:40 -0700
          Re: I love assert Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 15:07 -0700
            Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-13 00:47 +0200
              Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-12 14:56 -0800
              Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-13 09:58 +1100
              Re: I love assert Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 16:05 -0700
                Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-13 01:12 +0200
              Re: I love assert Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2014-11-14 01:09 +1100
        Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-14 22:33 +1100
          Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-14 10:18 -0800
            Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-14 21:12 +0200
              Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-14 12:41 -0800
                Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-14 22:50 +0200
            Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-15 13:58 +1100
              Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-14 20:09 -0800
                Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-17 13:09 +1100
                Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-16 19:25 -0800
      Re: I love assert Anton <anschatten@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 14:00 -0800
        Re: I love assert Anton <anschatten@gmail.com> - 2014-11-12 14:04 -0800
          Re: I love assert Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-13 00:34 +0200
    Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-13 09:43 +1100
  Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-14 22:15 +1100
  Re: I love assert Richard Riehle <rriehle@itu.edu> - 2014-11-14 14:09 -0800
    Decorators (was: Re: I love assert) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-15 00:18 +0200
      Re: Decorators Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-11-14 22:37 +0000
        Re: Decorators Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-15 00:47 +0200
      Re: Decorators (was: Re: I love assert) Richard Riehle <rriehle@itu.edu> - 2014-11-14 18:19 -0800
        Re: Decorators (was: Re: I love assert) Mayank Tripathi <oquanox@gmail.com> - 2014-11-15 02:36 +0000
        Re: Decorators (was: Re: I love assert) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-11-14 20:30 -0600
          Re: Decorators Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-15 09:00 +0200
            Re: Decorators Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-11-15 15:32 +0000
        Re: Decorators (was: Re: I love assert) Richard Riehle <rriehle@itu.edu> - 2014-11-14 23:42 -0800
        Re: Decorators Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-11-15 13:12 +0000
          Re: Decorators Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-15 15:24 +0200
            Re: Decorators Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-11-15 15:28 -0500
        Re: Decorators (was: Re: I love assert) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-16 02:39 +1100
  Re: I love assert TP <wingusr@gmail.com> - 2014-11-27 01:22 -0800
    Re: I love assert alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-11-27 09:59 +0000
      Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-29 12:30 +1100
        Re: I love assert MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-11-29 02:56 +0000
          Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-29 20:31 +1100
            Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-29 21:40 +1100
            Re: I love assert MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-11-29 19:49 +0000
        Re: I love assert Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-29 14:02 +1100
        Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-29 14:33 -0800
          Re: I love assert Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-30 19:18 +1100
            Re: I love assert Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-11-30 11:34 -0800

csiph-web