Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World

From	Rich <rich@example.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.misc
Subject	Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World
Date	2014-08-20 22:07 +0000
Organization	My Linux Box
Message-ID	<lt366b$b14$2@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<lsebrn$buh$1@dont-email.me> <lsj6v1$ngq$1@dont-email.me> <vg37g2a9dau.fsf@coffee.modeemi.fi> <lsla9k$o8a$1@dont-email.me> <vg3oavf6rod.fsf@coffee.modeemi.fi>

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Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:
> Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:

> > Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:
> >
> >> Yeah. I have to say also that my laptop running the Gentoo-based
> >> Sabayon distro boots wicked fast with systemd. Granted, that's only
> >> after I built a custom kernel and threw out the bloated initrd they
> >> use by default but still.

> > Which is fine, except that you should only need to boot when doing a
> > kernel upgrade.  Anytime in between you should be sleeping/hibernating,
> > in which case "time to boot" is not an issue.

> In a better world, yes. And that has worked perfectly on my file server
> and fairly well on my desktop. I can even hibernate the desktop in Linux
> and instead of shutting down boot Windows instead and when I'm done with
> that, Linux resumes. Mostly, sometimes the resume hangs but it's been
> getting rarer. I guess Nvidia is improving their drivers.

> Unfortunately with my laptop I have to frequently boot because:

> ... (long list of problems clipped)

Understood.  My laptop does sleep/hibernate fairly well, about once
every 3 weeks or so it fails to return from hibernation, and so gets a
reboot.  Newer kernels have progressively been better about running for
longer periods of time before it messes up in restore.

However, one of the big purported reasons for needing to write systemd
was that of speeding up cold boots.  Now, imagine how much developer
effort and time has been expended so far on systemd , and
reimplimenting all the other side services that systemd is now taking
over.

Now imagine if that effort and time had been directed towards rooting
out the issues causing sleep/hibernate to not work on various different
machines, and fixing those issues.

Where do you think Linux sleep/hibernate might be reliability wise if
the effort spent on systemd had instead been spent on trying to make
sure that you never needed to cold boot except for kernel upgrades?

I suspect Linux's sleep/hibernate would surpass windows in reliability
(and windows sleep/hibernate is not the model of reliability either) if
that effort had been redirected.

> Of course, patching and building kernels and hoping for a fix on these
> issues is a big reason for the reboots too.

True, although unless your laptop is wicked fast (or you build your
kernels on another, wicked fast, machine), the time to actually build
the kernel far surpasses the time to go through the cold boot to start
up the new kernel.

Thread

OT: Open letter to the Linux World Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-08-13 00:35 +0000
  Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Kara M'bola <maxupixu@in.val.it> - 2014-08-13 15:31 +0000
    Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2014-08-14 16:55 +0000
    Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2014-08-14 15:38 -0300
    Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-08-19 14:30 +0000
      Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-08-19 15:38 +0000
  Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Randy Westlund <Vorzakir@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-14 20:30 +0000
  Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2014-08-14 16:42 -0400
    Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-08-14 21:57 +0100
    Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2014-08-15 10:11 +0300
      Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Kara M'bola <maxupixu@in.val.it> - 2014-08-15 12:26 +0000
        Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2014-08-15 10:06 -0400
          Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Kara M'bola <maxupixu@in.val.it> - 2014-08-15 14:48 +0000
            Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2014-08-15 11:49 -0400
              Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Kara M'bola <maxupixu@in.val.it> - 2014-08-15 17:47 +0000
              Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-08-15 18:54 +0000
                Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2014-08-15 16:05 -0400
                Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-08-15 21:22 +0000
                Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-08-15 21:26 +0000
      Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-08-15 15:51 +0000
        Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2014-08-20 19:40 +0300
          Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-08-20 22:07 +0000
          Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World "D.D." <xyzzy@inbox.com> - 2014-08-21 02:40 -0700
    Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2014-08-15 13:25 +0100
    Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2014-08-15 20:11 +0000
      Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-08-15 21:32 +0000
    Re: OT: Open letter to the Linux World Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> - 2014-08-16 14:25 +0300

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