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| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function |
| Date | 2011-10-29 14:03 -0700 |
| Organization | None to speak of |
| Message-ID | <lnehxvjysb.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <j8f2fn$vhu$1@dont-email.me> <lnhb2slp7p.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <j8gpuk$p58$1@dont-email.me> <lnzkgjk626.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <j8hjub$q7d$1@dont-email.me> |
"BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> "Keith Thompson" <kst-u@mib.org> wrote in message
> news:lnzkgjk626.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org...
>> "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>
>>> With a basic language statement like assignment, you wouldn't expect it
>>> to
>>> be backed up with logic to make sure operands are not null.
>
>>> A function (any function really, rather than just memcpy) is different;
>
>> memcpy(), in a very real sense, is a basic language feature. Yes, it's
>> in the library rather than in the core language, but its performance is
>> just as important as the performance of an assignment.
>>
>> And having memcpy() check for null pointers and do nothing makes certain
>> errors *more difficult to detect*. If I write
>>
>> memcpy(target, source, size);
>>
>> and either target or source happens to be a null pointer, it's almost
>> certainly because I made a mistake.
>
> If size is zero, that's quite likely to be a mistake too. Yet the standard
> defines the behaviour in that case. (I've been looking at the Python
> implementation code; checking for size being zero is the most common check
> before calling memcpy(), even though it is not actually needed. Checks for
> destination or source being null are rarer.)
A size of zero isn't nearly as likely to be a mistake as a null
pointer. For example, suppose you have an array of (whatever) and
a count of how many elements of the array are currently meaningful.
It makes sense to use memcpy() to copy only the meaningful elements.
The fact that the behavior for size==0 is well defined means you
don't need to code that as a special case.
If you insist on treating a null pointer as if it were a pointer to
an empty (whatever), you can certainly do that -- but don't expect
memcpy() to have special-case code to check for null pointers just
so you don't have to.
I don't think anybody has claimed that the C standard library is a model
of consistency. It's evolved over the years from earlier libraries,
some of them independently developed, many of them optimized for much
smaller and slower systems. But I personally find the way memcpy() is
defined to be reasonable, and I think most other C programmers do as
well. (If you're saying that you don't like the way C is defined,
you're certainly not alone.)
>> A memcpy() that hides that mistake
>> from me isn't doing me any favors; it's by no means certain that doing
>> nothing is the correct behavior that will "fix" the bug.
>
> Letting some code deliberately crash seems a rather drastic way of telling
> you something is wrong! And not crashing doesn't mean nothing else is wrong.
Letting code deliberately crash is intended to tell *the developer*
that something is wrong. It's not just a random occurrence;
there's a lot of carefully crafted code in your operating system
that's designed to cause, handle, and report crashes.
[...]
> Sometimes I start writing a function before fully documenting it or knowing
> exactly how it will be used, or whether a null parameter is even likely.
> It's simplest to just put checks for null right from the start. Usually it
> doesn't hurt. If the value *shouldn't* have been null, then I will find out
> when the program doesn't do what I want!
Will you *always* find out? Not all bugs are detected when they should
be. If my code is buggy, I'd much rather have it crash early than
quietly behave in some way other than what I intended.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
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about NULL as a parameter to a libc function gaoqiang <gaoqiangscut@gmail.com> - 2011-10-28 01:49 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Mark Bluemel <mark_bluemel@pobox.com> - 2011-10-28 10:14 +0100
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function gaoqiang <gaoqiangscut@gmail.com> - 2011-10-28 03:22 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Mark Bluemel <mark_bluemel@pobox.com> - 2011-10-28 11:29 +0100
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-29 07:08 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-28 07:05 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-28 14:15 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function gordonb.4o15x@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-10-28 16:36 -0500
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-10-28 17:30 -0500
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function jgharston <jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk> - 2011-10-31 10:40 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-28 22:32 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-29 06:20 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-10-29 15:40 +0100
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-30 08:05 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-28 14:13 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-10-29 15:11 +0300
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-29 06:41 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-29 11:29 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-28 02:36 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Mike Manilone <mike@laptop.mike> - 2011-10-28 12:58 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-28 11:00 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-11-03 11:13 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-29 06:37 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-11-03 11:00 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-03 12:54 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-03 17:08 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-03 13:18 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-03 17:28 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-03 13:48 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-03 17:55 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-03 14:12 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2011-11-03 11:22 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-03 14:28 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-03 19:47 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-03 16:19 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 22:13 -0800
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Ike Naar <ike@sverige.freeshell.org> - 2011-11-03 18:20 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Ike Naar <ike@sverige.freeshell.org> - 2011-11-03 18:34 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-03 19:49 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-03 16:21 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2011-11-03 22:19 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 22:17 -0800
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 21:19 -0800
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-28 14:26 +0100
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-10-28 12:46 -0600
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-28 14:19 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-28 16:37 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-28 07:22 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-11-03 10:40 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-03 15:10 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-04 03:03 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-10-28 08:42 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-10-28 16:31 +0200
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-10-28 20:29 +0100
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-10-29 14:49 +0300
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Ike Naar <ike@sverige.freeshell.org> - 2011-10-29 13:41 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-10-28 19:53 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-10-28 21:13 +0100
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-10-28 20:33 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-28 16:56 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2011-10-28 14:30 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-28 16:45 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-28 15:35 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-10-29 13:00 +0100
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-29 11:26 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-10-29 20:24 +0100
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-29 14:03 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-29 07:30 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-11-03 11:26 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-03 12:59 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-03 13:42 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-28 20:17 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-28 18:51 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-10-28 21:40 +0100
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-28 17:09 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-10-29 15:03 +0300
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-29 09:42 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-28 21:18 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-28 23:30 +0100
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-28 15:37 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-28 23:47 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-28 17:13 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-29 04:31 +0100
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-29 05:42 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-10-30 17:22 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-10-30 23:43 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-10-31 05:31 -0500
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-10-31 12:42 +0200
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-10-31 13:11 -0500
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-10-31 17:18 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-29 07:32 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-10-28 23:41 +0200
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-28 22:42 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-10-29 10:09 +0200
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-10-29 10:11 +0100
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-10-29 09:42 +0000
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-10-29 16:17 +0200
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-29 07:39 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-10-29 19:29 +0200
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-10-29 20:25 +0200
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-30 08:14 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 18:30 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 18:21 -0800
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-11-03 11:31 -0400
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-03 13:45 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function Jonathan Leffler <jleffler@earthlink.net> - 2011-10-29 23:41 -0700
Re: about NULL as a parameter to a libc function James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-30 07:13 -0400
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