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Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says

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edprochak@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 13, 2016 at 9:36:13 PM UTC-4, Serigo wrote:
>> On 10/13/2016 10:47 AM, edprochak@gmail.com wrote:
> []
>> > [repling to JP
>> > okay, you argue against solar on mars because of
>> > "lots of dust storms."
>> 
>> that is what stops the Rover for months which is on Mars and solar powered
> 
> And then recovers when a "cleaning event" occurs.

Yes, that is the advantage to robots. The don't die while waiting for
the power to come back on, the just go to sleep.

>> > but then argue against wind power
>> > because "the atmosphere is so thin".
>> 
>> it is only 1% of earth, not enough mass blowing to really generate a lot 
>> of power, and does Mars have strong prevailing winds ?  think not.
> 
> Agree, both forms are likely to be intermittent.

Intermittant and lacking in substance.

>> > Actually I am arguing that they might be able to harness
>> > both forms of power. just as we need to do here.
>> 
>> they need power at night, and when the wind is blowing, so they must use 
>> a nuk.   no need for wind power.  some solar may help but dust is a big 
>> problem, how do you clean it with out water or personel or scratching it ?
>> 
> Every so often clean it with the equivalent of a leaf blower.
> []

To get the equivelant electrical power of a small 50 MW reactor you need
over a million square meters of solar panel on Mars.

That would require a very large crew of leaf blower operators.

>> > Wind, solar. Boy you have very short term memory.
>> 
>> nope, they sound good, but not enough power during night. and wind is 
>> too wimpy
> 
> So? Use multiple sources, {gasp} just like here on earth.

The non-conventional sources, i.e. not nuclear, coal, natural gas,
or hydro, are a tiny fraction of the power used on Earth.

While solar and wind could supply a small amount of energy on Mars,
enough to support a small research station, it is obviously not 
enough to support a full blown colony with industry of any size.

>> 
> []
>> > So did you read the Musk plan at all?
>> 
>> yep, most all daydreams wo the engineering, no cost constraints
>> 
> So you know they do plan to send a lots of material initially,
> until it becomes self sustaining.

Lots being measured in the equivelant of a medium sized city if
the goal is a colony.

> []
>> >
>> > What is it with the water fascination with you?
>> > You never had a house with forced hot air for heating?
>> 
>> it is mass, the mass of the water carrys far more heat than air, higher 
>> effeciency, etc.  Humans require a lot of water.
> 
> Sure, and if the water is available, that is the first choice.
> JP was arguing there is little or no water available.

No, I was not.

I stated the fact that it is unknown whether or not there are large
quatities of water available any place other than the poles.

Even the most starry eyed space cadet dreamer has to agree that putting
a colony at the poles is stupid.

> [water recycling equipment discussion]
>> >
>> > maybe the first few. Later they will make their own.
>> > Again, did you not read the plan?
>> 
>> old news, space station has it
> 
> exactly. that part is not a problem.
>> 
>> >
>> > Space station does not have the room. Mars will have room
>> > for washing machines. Maybe not even water based. (ever had
>> > your suit dry cleaned?)
>> 
>> dry cleaning is with fluids, they used to use carbontet, but that causes 
>> cancer.  I saw a film from the early 50;s of people walking down into a 
>> pool of carbontet, and back out again, all their clothes were cleaned.
>> 
>> but you cant have an air polutant on the station, therefore no dry cleaning.
>> 
> 
> But we know how to contain such vapors.
> []

True, but where do you get it if you don't have a massive chemical
industry manufacturing it?

>> > Again the SHORT TERM memory is failing you. Molten Salt Reactors.
>> > I even mentioned it again on the line below. just above you sig:
>> 
>> there are safer reactors, they would probably just scale up one like the 
>> use to power deep spacecraft,  radioactive stuff heats up therompiles. 
>> ultra reliable, lasts long time.
> 
> Yes, we agree that there are solutions
 

-- 
Jim Pennino

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Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-11 06:33 -0700
  Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-11 18:35 +0000
    Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-11 14:30 -0500
    Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-13 08:47 -0700
      Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 10:31 -0700
        Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-13 20:37 -0500
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-13 18:49 -0700
            Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-13 21:53 -0500
              Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-13 22:40 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-14 10:49 -0700
      Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-13 23:42 +0000
      Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-13 20:35 -0500
        Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-14 08:36 -0700
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-14 17:59 +0000

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