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Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says

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On 10/13/2016 10:47 AM, edprochak@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 2:46:06 PM UTC-4, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>> edprochak@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 5:16:04 PM UTC-4, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>> edprochak@gmail.com wrote:
>>> []
>>>>> I SAID :  VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
>>>>>>>> I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many times do you have to ask the same question?
>>>>
>>>> Likely until you provide a rational answer.
>>>>
>>>> The solar irradiance on Mars on average is about half that of Earth
>>>> when there are no dust storms, and there are lots of dust storms.
>>>
>>> So there may be possibility for wind power. Thin atmosphere, but
>>> how much power could be converted? something to consider. all options
>>> should be checked.
>>
>> How much can be converted you ask?
>>
>> The same as anywhere else, about 30% of whatever is available, but
>> since the atmosphere is so thin, there is little available.
>
> okay, you argue against solar on mars because of
> "lots of dust storms."

that is what stops the Rover for months which is on Mars and solar powered

> but then argue against wind power
> because "the atmosphere is so thin".

it is only 1% of earth, not enough mass blowing to really generate a lot 
of power, and does Mars have strong prevailing winds ?  think not.

>
> Actually I am arguing that they might be able to harness
> both forms of power. just as we need to do here.

they need power at night, and when the wind is blowing, so they must use 
a nuk.   no need for wind power.  some solar may help but dust is a big 
problem, how do you clean it with out water or personel or scratching it ?

>
>>
>>>> The only way to provide the enormous amount of power needed to turn
>>>> dirt and rocks into anything useful can only be supplied by several
>>>> nuclear reactors.
>>>
>>> I'm sure that is not the only way, but I agree Nuclear would be a big
>>> source.
>>
>> If you are so sure, name it.
>
> Wind, solar. Boy you have very short term memory.

nope, they sound good, but not enough power during night. and wind is 
too wimpy


>>>
>>> Maybe they can develop the technology for the Mars colony, then we get
>>> the benefit of the research for plants here on earth.
>>
>> Fine. This just means you have to transport everything from Earth.
>
> So did you read the Musk plan at all?

yep, most all daydreams wo the engineering, no cost constraints

>
>>
>>> IF it turns out there is not enough water, maybe direct conversion
>>> with thermal electric generators can be done. And then the "waste heat"
>>> can also be piped around the colony for room heating and such.
>>
>> The typical efficiency of thermal electric generators is around 5-8%.
>
> Yes, so? You are connecting them to a nuclear plant. LOTS of heat
> available.
>
>>
>> Piping heat anywhere, whether for heating or just dumpling it requires
>> a transport medium such as water.
>
> What is it with the water fascination with you?
> You never had a house with forced hot air for heating?

it is mass, the mass of the water carrys far more heat than air, higher 
effeciency, etc.  Humans require a lot of water.



>>
>>> Regarding the water, the space station shows that recycling water
>>> works. So It would be interesting to calculate how much water would
>>> really be needed per person. Clearly a lot less that what is used
>>> by we Americans per person. I know of a company working on home
>>> based recycling of water (for homes in drought affected areas).
>>
>> So where is this water recyling plant going to come from other
>> than Earth?
>>
>> One more huge, heavy, expensive thing that needs to be transported.
>
> maybe the first few. Later they will make their own.
> Again, did you not read the plan?

old news, space station has it

>
>>
>> No one is going to be watering a lawn on Mars.
>>
>> They do not wash anything on the space station; they send dirty stuff
>> back to Earth and send up clean stuff on a regular basis.
>
> Space station does not have the room. Mars will have room
> for washing machines. Maybe not even water based. (ever had
> your suit dry cleaned?)

dry cleaning is with fluids, they used to use carbontet, but that causes 
cancer.  I saw a film from the early 50;s of people walking down into a 
pool of carbontet, and back out again, all their clothes were cleaned.

but you cant have an air polutant on the station, therefore no dry cleaning.

>>
>>> The problems can be solved. and the benefits will come back to us.
>>
>> Sure the problems can be solved by sending huge amounts of stuff to
>> Mars on a regular basis. What benefit does that have to the taxpayers
>> funding all this?
>>
> The colonists devise new ways of making things work with the resources
> available on Mars. We then can do some of the same things here.
> We will benefit.

arizona, austrailia will benifit, they are full of rocks and sand.

>

>>
>> Like what exactly? Collect everyone's shit, dry it on the near
>> vacuum surface and burn it in a steam boiler? Oops, no oxygen
>> to burn anything and no water for the boiler.
>
> Again the SHORT TERM memory is failing you. Molten Salt Reactors.
> I even mentioned it again on the line below. just above you sig:

there are safer reactors, they would probably just scale up one like the 
use to power deep spacecraft,  radioactive stuff heats up therompiles. 
ultra reliable, lasts long time.

>>
>>> (Interesting too. I may just have to read more about MSR.)
>>>
>>> Have a nice day.
>>
>> --
>> Jim Pennino
>
> (like talking to a two year old.)
>

two is bettr than a three year old!

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Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-11 06:33 -0700
  Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-11 18:35 +0000
    Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-11 14:30 -0500
    Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-13 08:47 -0700
      Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 10:31 -0700
        Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-13 20:37 -0500
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-13 18:49 -0700
            Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-13 21:53 -0500
              Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-13 22:40 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-14 10:49 -0700
      Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-13 23:42 +0000
      Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-13 20:35 -0500
        Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-14 08:36 -0700
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-14 17:59 +0000

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