Re: The C Containers Library

From	"Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: The C Containers Library
Date	2012-07-30 00:07 -0600
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<jv58ob$b23$3@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
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"jacob navia" <jacob@spamsink.net> wrote in message 
news:jv411k$qpg$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> Le 29/07/12 19:27, Alan Curry a écrit :
>> In article <jv2qgt$s7c$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
>> jacob navia  <jacob@jspamsink.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> We have discussed the glib several times in this group. Specifically,
>>> the behavior of "xmalloc" of the glib was questioned that aborts the
>>> program instead of returning NULL.
>>
>> Yes, it has major problems. But it also has millions of installations
>> and thousands of programmers are already familiar with it.
>>
>
> So, you propose that the standard accepts something hat has "major
> problems" as you say just because it is used in GTK+ ?
>
>
> What is the logic behin d that? I do not see any.
>
>
>>>
>>> The basic problem is that the glib is GNU, and that means that it can't
>>> be used outside the restrictions of the GPL.
>>
>> I don't see how this matters. Was there a public domain implementation
>> of all the C89 functions before they were standardized?
>>
>> My point would be equally valid if I used the Microsoft equivalent to
>> GLib as an example, but I don't know what the Microsoft equivalent to
>> GLib is. (I assume they have a similar library of non-standard utility
>> functions with trees and hash tables and such.)
>>
>
> Microsoft has abandonned any development in C or C++ since the adoption
> of the C# language.

You are a year or two behind the change of direction in that regard. C++ 
seems to be prime path these days at MS -- but I'm not an insider, I just 
get that impression from the external info they release, and I don't even 
hardly keep up with such things diligently. Where have you been?

Insiders (and others), please correct me if my impression about that is 
wrong.

> Even Visual Basic now runs in the virtual .net
> machine, as do many  other languages that are just different language
> front ends for the .net VM.

.net is on another level. Languages are still the foundation for "real" 
software product. .net is there for those who want high-level APIs that can 
deliver product on Windows fast. (Noted and granted that a company's product 
built on top of .net may be more of a toll-stop entry onto the Windows 
highway than a "real" software product).

> Of course there isn't any official announcement of this but you can
> see where the Microsoft emphasis is just by reading between the lines

You seem to be living in the past? It was obvious to even the casual 
observer that C# was a prime path at MS for awhile. They even tried to 
bastardize C++ by introducing C++/CLI at the time. Now if that isn't a 
bastard of a name, nothing is (!): "Oh yes, and have you met our son? His 
name is C++ (/CLI). Yes, half human, and 10% artificiality. (Don't ask about 
the rest -- you *don't* want to know).

C# started out as a competitive response to java. C# has merits. I defy any 
C++ programmer (I cannot say C programmer, but it may be so too) to examine, 
to some thorough degree, C# and *not* come away a better programmer. I am 
pointing at those C/C++ programmers that don't really use or eval other 
languages much. Then again, it could likely be that examining C# cured some 
of my deficiencies in understanding about certain topics and others don't 
have those or any deficiencies. It is worth a look, IMO. On that note, it 
would be much worth a look at the container architecture if one was creating 
such a thing.

Again, I'm not an insider and spurt out what I think I know based upon what 
I read and hear -- and I'm hardly up with current events either, but Jacob 
seems to be too far removed and needs to "read the paper" a bit IMO.

I *encourage* factual correction, for then my brain gets reprogrammed with 
current data. Yes, I am a cyborg.

>
> There isn't any new versions of the SDK since several years now,

What do you care? You are a C programmer and compete directly with MS and 
.net. You're not Johnny or Jainie pointing-and-clicking their ways to 
software production nirvana. Get a bit more lax, though, and they may do 
just that! (Ref: the movie with Sly Stallone as the thawed-out cop in the 
future world where Taco Bell is then "Fine Dining").

> the
> developments of the C++ wrappers for the windows API has ceased, and
> in general Microsoft is going in the direction of "managed" C++ if
> at all.

"Hello". What year is this please? Someone post that info so that I can know 
whether I am insane or Jacob is asleep.

>
> So, from that side there isn't anything.
>

"So", via your decree? I am sceptical now. I was proceeding as if you did 
not have a "white paper" about your CCL, and was expecting you to "shut me 
up" with: "dude, the white paper is available at <link>". You have on gun 
and holster, but no bullets? Duel in October you said -- you better learn to 
shoot fast and straight before then, because it's the real thing and the 
talk is about to end. You're not thinking about backing out and waiting for 
next committee meeting which would require more bits to convey the date, are 
you? Need more time? You got two months -- use them. I suggest you create 
the white paper and pander it around the guru circles and let them tear up 
each detail. In private.
You're not developing a product, don't need NDA, and that makes it waaay 
easier. People who like words, love the challenge of crosswords. Guru 
developers, love evaluating code, for it expands their knowledge 
synergistically. Then there are architects and designers, most of who 
couldn't program their way out of a subway and wouldn't care to, and your 
CCL is what they do and it behooves you to get their input. God bless those 
who can work for a paycheck.

> From the linux/gnu side GTK+ uses the glib yes, but I do not know of
> many major software that uses that stuff OUTSIDE gtk+. I would be
> interested to know if there is any. Can you name a few?
>
> Thanks
>
>

Thread

The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-08 21:53 +0200
  Re: The C Containers Library aftnix <aftnix@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 13:13 -0700
    Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-26 22:31 +0200
      Re: The C Containers Library lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-07-28 17:46 -0400
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 02:05 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-07-30 14:48 -0400
          Re: The C Containers Library Phil Bradby <nospam@nospam.com> - 2012-08-01 21:00 +0000
            Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-01 23:18 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-02 00:48 -0700
              Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-02 07:00 -0400
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-02 13:27 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Quentin Pope <qp19433@hotmail.NOSPAM.com> - 2012-08-02 20:27 +0000
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-02 05:13 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-08-02 14:26 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-08-03 10:47 -0400
        Re: The C Containers Library Noob <root@localhost> - 2012-07-29 09:58 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 00:31 -0600
            Re: The C Containers Library Noob <root@localhost> - 2012-07-30 09:45 +0200
              Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-30 02:10 -0700
          Re: The C Containers Library lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-07-30 14:54 -0400
    Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-07-26 16:52 -0400
      Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-26 22:56 +0200
        Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-26 22:29 +0000
          Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-27 01:50 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-27 22:28 +0000
          Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-29 06:31 -0700
            Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 00:26 -0600
              Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-30 02:21 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-02 02:27 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-08-02 16:43 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library Ansel <lateknightdev@gmail.com> - 2012-08-02 17:07 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-08-03 22:21 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library Ansel <lateknightdev@gmail.com> - 2012-08-03 15:43 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2012-08-04 06:32 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-04 01:52 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-04 22:36 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2012-08-05 08:36 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-05 01:28 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2012-08-05 11:31 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-05 03:48 -0600
            Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-04 03:41 -0700
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-27 01:55 +0200
  Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-26 13:45 -0700
    Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-26 22:53 +0200
      Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-26 18:46 -0700
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-27 10:59 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-07-27 03:39 -0700
          Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-27 11:34 -0700
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-27 11:04 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library W Karas <wkaras@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-27 13:10 -0700
  Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-26 18:54 -0700
    Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-07-27 10:25 -0400
      Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-27 11:28 -0700
        Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-07-27 15:17 -0400
          Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-27 13:00 -0700
          Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 02:02 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-28 22:08 -0600
              Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 08:46 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-29 07:43 +0000
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 09:59 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-29 06:43 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-29 17:27 +0000
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 20:56 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-30 00:07 +0000
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 00:07 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-29 11:58 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 22:06 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 22:23 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2012-07-30 00:13 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 00:13 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-30 01:10 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 02:57 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-07-30 15:47 +0000
                Re: The C Containers Library Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-30 13:01 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-30 04:53 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-30 13:04 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-02 02:11 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-02 06:52 -0400
                Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-02 06:46 -0400
                Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-30 00:41 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-30 09:45 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-29 23:05 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-29 22:52 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-30 04:56 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-02 02:07 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-30 17:49 +0200
        Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-28 09:17 +0100
          Re: The C Containers Library W Karas <wkaras@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-28 15:17 -0700
            Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-29 11:10 +0100
        Re: The C Containers Library Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-07-28 06:51 -0700
          Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-07-28 17:23 +0100
            Re: The C Containers Library Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-07-30 13:40 -0700
              Re: The C Containers Library Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2012-07-31 00:24 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2012-07-31 00:05 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-31 00:53 +0100
            Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-31 09:24 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-08-02 14:45 -0700
              Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-08-03 22:31 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-04 00:01 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-08-03 23:45 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-04 22:47 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-04 22:41 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 10:24 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-07 15:30 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-08-07 15:35 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-09-07 12:40 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-09-08 00:07 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-09-07 17:31 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-09-08 03:14 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-09-08 05:22 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-09-07 12:36 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-08 02:26 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-08 17:25 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-08-03 16:04 -0700
  Re: The C Containers Library SG <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-08-04 04:52 -0700
    Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-04 18:42 +0200
      Re: The C Containers Library Ike Naar <ike@faeroes.freeshell.org> - 2012-08-04 19:17 +0000
        Re: The C Containers Library Ike Naar <ike@faeroes.freeshell.org> - 2012-08-04 19:22 +0000
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-04 22:14 +0200
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-05 00:15 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library Ike Naar <ike@faeroes.freeshell.org> - 2012-08-04 23:13 +0000
            Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-04 22:53 -0600

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