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Groups > comp.lang.c > #23877

Re: The C Containers Library

From jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: The C Containers Library
Date 2012-07-29 08:46 +0200
Organization lccwin
Message-ID <jv2m8d$ir8$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <5012A4F5.4030107@verizon.net> <bb206f71-6858-4c61-81e9-4c3a896bdbe0@googlegroups.com> <5012E949.90106@verizon.net> <jv1uhs$2oj$1@speranza.aioe.org> <jv2d20$uei$1@speranza.aioe.org>

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Le 29/07/12 06:08, Ansel a écrit :
> "jacob navia" <jacob@spamsink.net> wrote in message
> news:jv1uhs$2oj$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>> Le 27/07/12 21:17, James Kuyper a écrit :
>
>> No, since C and C++ are different languages with different approaches.
>>
>> In C++ the solution to everything is to complexify the language without
>> bounds.
>>
>> In C, complex software can be done with simpler tools if you program
>> carefully. That is why I like C. It allows you to build powerful
>> software with relatively simple tools. It appeals aesthetically,
>> I would say.
>>
>>> without all of the C++-specific features that STL relies upon,
>>
>> Exactly. Without all that huge machinery I arrive at very similar speeds
>> and features.
>
> Please post a side-by-side syntax comparison (STL vs. your CCL) of a few
> easy container declarations and their usages. A comparison chart of features
> comparing the two would be great also. A "strengths and weakeness" list of
> both would be more nice info. If you throw-in an overall comparison
> paragraph or two, you'd have the start to a "white paper" (maybe)! You'd
> need performance and overhead comparisons then too and an objective
> comparison of implementation characterisitcs beyond "and I did it without
> huge machinery".
>
> I don't think you can go to the conference and *not* compare against STL
> even though you have a C-based product. Else you're going to get responses
> like James gave you about it being kludgy -- you have to address that
> ("that" being that C gives one less clay to mold a container library with)
> and try to alleviate those concerns so that no one even thinks to say that.
> Your story needs to be not only convincing, but *compelling*.
>
> Did you start with STL as a design and then subtract until you came up with
> something similar that would work in C? If not, that may very well be a very
> good exercise.
>
>

No, I will not do that. The library is not a direct competition for the
STL, C++ is the best thing since sliced bread, and people that like
that machinery because they have been building it since years would fall
on me and my small project like hawks...

C++ people tend to look upon simpler tools like C with disdain since
by their very existence they show that another (simpler) way is possible
in software development; a way that leads maybe into less complexity
than what C++ offers now. But I am not pushing that, and I do not see
C++ people abandoning C++ to come to C. I see C programmers having
more fun with C since they do not have to implement a list AGAIN and AGAIN.

I see the library a a develomment of the C language, independent of C++.

Not as a competitor.

And I stay to this:

 >> In C, complex software can be done with simple tools if you program
 >> carefully. That is why I like C. It allows you to build powerful
 >> software with relatively simple tools. It appeals aesthetically,
 >> I would say.

jacob

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Thread

The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-08 21:53 +0200
  Re: The C Containers Library aftnix <aftnix@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 13:13 -0700
    Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-26 22:31 +0200
      Re: The C Containers Library lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-07-28 17:46 -0400
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 02:05 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-07-30 14:48 -0400
          Re: The C Containers Library Phil Bradby <nospam@nospam.com> - 2012-08-01 21:00 +0000
            Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-01 23:18 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-02 00:48 -0700
              Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-02 07:00 -0400
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-02 13:27 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Quentin Pope <qp19433@hotmail.NOSPAM.com> - 2012-08-02 20:27 +0000
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-02 05:13 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-08-02 14:26 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-08-03 10:47 -0400
        Re: The C Containers Library Noob <root@localhost> - 2012-07-29 09:58 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 00:31 -0600
            Re: The C Containers Library Noob <root@localhost> - 2012-07-30 09:45 +0200
              Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-30 02:10 -0700
          Re: The C Containers Library lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-07-30 14:54 -0400
    Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-07-26 16:52 -0400
      Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-26 22:56 +0200
        Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-26 22:29 +0000
          Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-27 01:50 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-27 22:28 +0000
          Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-29 06:31 -0700
            Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 00:26 -0600
              Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-30 02:21 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-02 02:27 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-08-02 16:43 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library Ansel <lateknightdev@gmail.com> - 2012-08-02 17:07 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-08-03 22:21 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library Ansel <lateknightdev@gmail.com> - 2012-08-03 15:43 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2012-08-04 06:32 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-04 01:52 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-04 22:36 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2012-08-05 08:36 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-05 01:28 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2012-08-05 11:31 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-05 03:48 -0600
            Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-04 03:41 -0700
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-27 01:55 +0200
  Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-26 13:45 -0700
    Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-26 22:53 +0200
      Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-26 18:46 -0700
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-27 10:59 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-07-27 03:39 -0700
          Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-27 11:34 -0700
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-27 11:04 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library W Karas <wkaras@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-27 13:10 -0700
  Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-26 18:54 -0700
    Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-07-27 10:25 -0400
      Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-27 11:28 -0700
        Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-07-27 15:17 -0400
          Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-27 13:00 -0700
          Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 02:02 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-28 22:08 -0600
              Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 08:46 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-29 07:43 +0000
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 09:59 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-29 06:43 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-29 17:27 +0000
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 20:56 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-30 00:07 +0000
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 00:07 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-29 11:58 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 22:06 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 22:23 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2012-07-30 00:13 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 00:13 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-30 01:10 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 02:57 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-07-30 15:47 +0000
                Re: The C Containers Library Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-30 13:01 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-30 04:53 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-30 13:04 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-02 02:11 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-02 06:52 -0400
                Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-02 06:46 -0400
                Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-30 00:41 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-30 09:45 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-29 23:05 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-29 22:52 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-30 04:56 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-02 02:07 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-30 17:49 +0200
        Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-28 09:17 +0100
          Re: The C Containers Library W Karas <wkaras@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-28 15:17 -0700
            Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-29 11:10 +0100
        Re: The C Containers Library Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-07-28 06:51 -0700
          Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-07-28 17:23 +0100
            Re: The C Containers Library Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-07-30 13:40 -0700
              Re: The C Containers Library Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2012-07-31 00:24 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2012-07-31 00:05 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-31 00:53 +0100
            Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-31 09:24 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-08-02 14:45 -0700
              Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-08-03 22:31 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-04 00:01 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-08-03 23:45 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-04 22:47 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-04 22:41 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 10:24 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-07 15:30 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-08-07 15:35 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-09-07 12:40 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-09-08 00:07 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-09-07 17:31 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-09-08 03:14 +0100
                Re: The C Containers Library Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-09-08 05:22 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-09-07 12:36 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-08 02:26 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-08 17:25 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-08-03 16:04 -0700
  Re: The C Containers Library SG <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-08-04 04:52 -0700
    Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-04 18:42 +0200
      Re: The C Containers Library Ike Naar <ike@faeroes.freeshell.org> - 2012-08-04 19:17 +0000
        Re: The C Containers Library Ike Naar <ike@faeroes.freeshell.org> - 2012-08-04 19:22 +0000
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-04 22:14 +0200
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-05 00:15 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library Ike Naar <ike@faeroes.freeshell.org> - 2012-08-04 23:13 +0000
            Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-04 22:53 -0600

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