Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #405942

Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories?

Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Date	2017-01-17 12:59 -0800
References	<2121a4d2-023e-41d4-8b16-8c5c9dd2af69@googlegroups.com> <dce23e87-6635-46d2-9989-4ee0af11ead2@googlegroups.com> <yZidnZaN2JDLq-fFnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <a00ebaf9-dfd8-48df-8e9c-97335458dba8@googlegroups.com> <1a7c2d9c-0bd2-494d-92c6-bc8c32f85522@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID	<fdd54520-e4fc-411b-a5dc-13c014ddea96@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories?
From	alsor@interia.pl

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W dniu wtorek, 17 stycznia 2017 21:21:44 UTC+1 użytkownik JanPB napisał:
> On Sunday, January 15, 2017 at 10:13:06 AM UTC-8, al...@interia.pl wrote:
> > W dniu sobota, 14 stycznia 2017 15:31:56 UTC+1 użytkownik tjrob137 napisał:
> > > On 1/13/17 1/13/17   9:55 AM, SEKI wrote:
> > > > A quantum is said to have wave-particle duality.
> > > 
> > > Speaking loosely, yes. Speaking precisely about photons in QED, no. Note that 
> > > QED is the theory in which the word and concept "photon" originated. Note also 
> > > that it comes from a perturbation APPROXIMATION to the theory.
> > > 
> > > > Considering single particle (quantum) interference in a double slit
> > > > experiment and other so-called quantum paradoxes, however, I cannot
> > > > but assume quanta are definitely waves, which are countable and each
> > > > can be localized.
> > > 
> > > Except that waves can not account for many observed behaviors of photons and 
> > > light, such as:
> > >   * photoelectric effect
> > >   * stability of atomic states
> > >   * atomic spectra
> > >   * interactions of photons with other particles
> > >   * photonic and semi-photonic decays of particles
> > >   * phenomena involving polarization
> > >   * lots of other phenomena dubbed "quantum optics", such as lasers
> > > Note these are the phenomena that forced physicists into developing QED. Note 
> > > also that QED models them all quite well, as well as other phenomena such as the 
> > > electron anomalous magnetic moment, and electron scattering (below hadron 
> > > threshold).
> > > 
> > > 	(Some of the above are modeled quite well by non-rel QM, an
> > > 	 APPROXIMATION to QED in which light is not really a wave.)
> > > 
> > > > Those who deny the possible existence of cohesive force seem to
> > > > neglect the wave nature of a quantum.
> > > 
> > > But it does NOT have a "wave nature". Experiments like the double-slit 
> > > experiment display the way photon probabilities behave, which certainly displays 
> > > wavelike behavior in such experiments, but photons are not waves.
> > > 
> > > QED models the behavior of light extremely well, without any additional 
> > > "cohesive force".
> > > 
> > > 	And I strongly suspect that it would be quite difficult to
> > > 	add such a "cohesive force" in a Lorentz-invariant way.
> > > 
> > > > Why do they believe that there exist extremely small elementary
> > > > particles (regardless of whether point-like or string) in reality?
> > > 
> > > Because the experiments indicate that transitions between photon and electron 
> > > states happen extremely quickly and in an extremely localized manner -- far too 
> > > quick and local for waves. Non-relativistic QM models this as "collapse of the 
> > > wave function" (or other unphysical mechanisms in other interpretations), but 
> > > QED does NOT. If you want to understand this, you MUST learn QED, as non-rel QM 
> > > is woefully inadequate; after all, it is merely an APPROXIMATION to QED.
> > > 
> > > Tom Roberts
> > 
> > QM and QED are the most stupid models,
> > disproved by elementary algebra rules already!
> > 
> > A quantum Bell's greatest discovery is just that:
> > |x-y| <= 1-xy
> > 
> > what's a problem?
> > 
> > It's a very big problem!, but of a pseudoscience (means: mainstream).
> > Similarily the Earth's rotation was the greatest problem in the middle ages...
> 
> Not even wrong.

Show me the proof of the fantastic (strongly nonclassical) 'Bells type' inequalities firstly.

Thread

Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 02:27 -0800
  Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-02 03:32 -0800
  Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-02 14:04 +0000
    Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 09:27 -0800
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 20:35 +0100
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-02 12:02 -0800
          Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Demetrice Barren <teercere@tmerunin.tme> - 2017-01-02 20:10 +0000
            Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 21:13 +0100
            Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 21:16 +0100
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-02 12:28 -0800
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Demetrice Barren <teercere@tmerunin.tme> - 2017-01-02 20:43 +0000
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-01-03 01:46 +0000
  Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-02 11:03 -0800
  Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-03 17:23 -0600
    Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-01-03 19:46 -0500
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Ermelinda Haymond <nmam@idandly.id> - 2017-01-04 01:00 +0000
    Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 06:06 -0800
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-04 06:18 -0800
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-06 09:36 -0600
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Aubrey Primmer <myr@ejmr.info> - 2017-01-06 15:51 +0000
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 23:54 -0800
  Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2017-01-04 07:38 -0800
    Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-04 11:21 -0800
    Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2017-01-07 19:19 -0800
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-07 19:31 -0800
  Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-01-13 07:55 -0800
    Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-13 17:37 +0100
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-01-14 00:29 -0800
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-16 07:24 +0100
    Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-13 10:15 -0800
    Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-14 08:31 -0600
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-01-14 22:21 -0800
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2017-01-14 22:58 -0800
          Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-15 14:52 -0600
            Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2017-01-15 13:36 -0800
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-15 14:48 -0600
          Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-01-16 00:24 -0800
            Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-16 13:08 -0600
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Reid Schaffner <dnfoonio@acdnfni.info> - 2017-01-16 19:39 +0000
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2017-01-16 12:20 -0800
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-01-16 19:31 -0800
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-15 10:13 -0800
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-01-17 12:21 -0800
          Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-17 12:59 -0800
            Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-01-18 12:40 -0800
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-19 10:57 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-01-19 12:01 -0800
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-16 14:03 -0800
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 00:03 +0100
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-16 21:22 -0600
          Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-17 11:35 -0800
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 00:05 -0800
  Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 23:49 -0800
    Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-13 00:11 -0800
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 00:31 -0800
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-13 00:47 -0800
          Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 02:09 -0800
            Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-13 03:19 -0800
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 06:45 -0800
    Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:21 -0600
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 14:26 +0100
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 06:51 -0800
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 09:26 -0600
          Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:37 -0800
            Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 09:55 -0600
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 09:10 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 18:44 +0100
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-13 18:33 +0000
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 20:11 +0100
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-13 19:21 +0000
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 20:43 +0100
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:11 -0800
    Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-13 10:56 -0600
      Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 09:18 -0800
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-13 12:45 -0600
          Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-13 20:44 +0000
            Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-14 09:40 -0600
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-15 16:13 +0000
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 17:34 +0100
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-15 17:11 +0000
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 18:23 +0100
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-15 17:31 +0000
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 20:01 +0100
          Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 13:24 -0800
            Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-13 21:47 +0000
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 23:01 +0100
            Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-13 18:19 -0600
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-13 23:24 -0800
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 23:53 -0800
          Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 13:30 -0800
        Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:43 -0600
          Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 07:55 -0800
            Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 11:55 -0600
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 23:21 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 14:58 -0600
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 15:40 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-16 13:14 -0600
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-02-16 20:39 +0000
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-16 21:21 -0600
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-02-17 11:55 +0000
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-17 03:57 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-02-17 21:42 +0000
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-18 01:20 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-02-18 16:31 +0000
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-18 11:58 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-19 08:47 -0600
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 23:59 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-02-17 12:18 +0000
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-19 09:01 -0600
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-17 04:52 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-17 12:57 +0000
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-19 09:49 -0600
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-19 09:58 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 07:52 -0600
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 09:03 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 11:28 -0600
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 09:51 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 12:22 -0600
              Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 00:23 -0800
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 11:09 +0100
                Re: Can We Believe in Modern Physics Theories? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-15 02:14 -0800

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