Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines

From	ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
Newsgroups	rec.arts.sf.written
Subject	Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines
Date	2016-06-07 05:09 +0000
Organization	loft
Message-ID	<drn38cFmk4sU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<robertaw-1E77DA.22232604062016@news.individual.net> <20160606b@crcomp.net> <9ca77997-a73a-4bae-a752-fedb399639e5@googlegroups.com> <20160606d@crcomp.net>

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In article <20160606d@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz  <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>nuny@bid.nes <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 5:49:47 PM UTC-7, Don Kuenz wrote:
>>> Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote:
>>> > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 03:57:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>> > <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>Terry Pratchett kind of explicitly gave up on keeping
>>> >>a straight timeline in his Discworld novels, by
>>> >>introducing an organisation of secret monks who were
>>> >>responsible for stopping people in the story from
>>> >>noticing the contradictions.  Or something like that.
>>> >
>>> > It's a world where magic (including time travel) is cheap and easy,
>>> > and reality is fragile, so yeah, the Time Monks are needed.  They
>>> > don't just keep people from noticing the contradictions, they actively
>>> > patch the paradoxes.
>>> >
>>> >>And the big city setting went from 16th century
>>> >>London-ish to 19th century in about one generation.
>>> >>(The guy in charge is very determined.)
>>> >
>>> > Again, magic is common and there's a reality shortage.  There's also a
>>> > surplus of narrativium, the element stories are made of.  So not only
>>> > did Ankh-Morpork invent movies and railroads and newspapers and flash
>>> > photography and rock 'n' roll in a single generation, but it has a
>>> > grand 19th-century opera house just down the block from its equivalent
>>> > of the Globe Theater, with neither one seen as anachronistic or
>>> > obsolete.
>>> >
>>> > Not to mention the clacks, a semaphore system that's equivalent to the
>>> > internet.
>>>
>>> peaking of time travel paradoxes, it seems to me that the Grandfather
>>> Paradox only applies to suicidal travelers. Off the top of my head,
>>> there are at least four stories where travelers meet young version of
>>> themselves: "By His Bootstraps" by RAH, "All You Zombies" by RAH,
>>> "The Man Who Folded Himself" by Gerrold, and "The Time Travelers Wife"
>>> by Niffenegger.
>>
>>  I don't know that last one; have to look it up.
>>
>>> In these stories, travelers protect their younger selves out of a sense
>>> of self-preservation. They also guide their younger selves.
>>
>>  In Gerrold's _Man Who Folded Himself_ the protag assembles many
>versions of himself from alternate timelines in one place
>- I recall one scene where a beefy creepy alter mentions he'd like to
>boink one of the more "delicate" alters.
>>
>>> These stories are also deterministic. Does the Grandfather Paradox
>>> become moot in deterministic time travel?
>>
>>  MWFH is anything but deterministic (despite the
>>
>> SPOILER
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  protag eventually "closing the loop" that started it all.
>>
>>  Anyway, if there isn't one, there should be a story about somebody
>> going back specifically to kill their grandfather who
>> succeeds, but the Universe collapses from the paradox...
>
>In "Thompson's Time Traveling Theory" by Weisinger, a man named Thompson
>travels back into past and shoots his own grandfather between the eyes.
>When he returns he asks two men how far it is to New York. The men
>tell him that New York was wiped out of existence in the war of 1920.
>Despondent over changing his present, Thompson turns the gun on himself.
>
>Then readers find out that the two men are asylum inmates. And that
>Thompson's grandfather "had had a white, furrowed scar on his forehead
>that might have been caused by a glancing bullet."
>

What was his motivation?  Was he trying to prove the past couldn't
be changed?
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Thread

Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2016-06-04 22:23 -0700
  Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-05 06:47 -0700
    Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-06-05 10:01 -0700
      Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-06 21:19 -0500
  Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-06-05 08:37 -0700
  Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-05 10:57 -0700
    Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-05 18:33 +0000
      Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-05 11:43 -0700
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-05 20:40 +0000
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 17:22 -0400
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-06-09 01:29 +0000
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-09 07:54 -0700
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-09 12:35 -0400
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-09 12:45 -0700
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-06-10 21:46 -0600
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-11 09:35 -0700
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-11 14:06 -0400
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-11 23:32 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-11 23:49 -0400
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-12 04:34 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-13 22:32 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-14 14:09 -0400
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-06-09 09:17 -0700
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-09 18:35 +0000
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2016-06-09 21:31 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-10 05:16 +0000
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-10 02:37 -0500
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-08-04 18:41 -0400
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-09 11:56 -0700
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-06-09 18:55 -0700
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-06-09 21:04 +0100
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines leif.roar@dimnakorr.com - 2016-06-10 03:24 -0500
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-10 15:00 +0000
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-10 14:05 -0700
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Richard Botting <rjbotting03@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 09:59 -0700
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-23 17:57 -0700
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-25 00:16 +0000
      Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Brenda <brendawriter@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-11 22:01 -0400
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-06-11 21:13 -0600
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-06-12 02:04 -0400
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-12 07:18 +0000
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-12 06:57 -0400
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-06-12 06:24 +0000
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-12 10:44 +0300
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-06-12 05:48 -0700
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-06-12 13:28 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-06-12 14:53 -0600
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-12 20:46 -0500
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Jesper Lauridsen <rorschak@sorrystofanet.dk> - 2016-07-14 00:04 +0000
  Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-06 03:57 -0700
    Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-06-06 11:30 -0400
      Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-07 00:49 +0000
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-06-06 19:52 -0600
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-06 21:25 -0500
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-06 20:59 -0600
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 20:25 -0700
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-07 05:02 +0000
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-07 05:09 +0000
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-07 05:51 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-07 06:21 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2016-06-06 23:31 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-06-07 09:43 +0100
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Stephen Allcroft <stephenallcroft@lycos.co.uk> - 2016-06-07 02:22 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-07 14:30 -0400
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 12:05 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Howard C <howard.r.carter@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 07:55 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-08 02:23 -0700
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-07 23:02 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-10 01:39 +0000
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-07 05:04 -0700
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-06-07 09:58 -0700
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-07 20:54 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-07 14:50 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-07 21:58 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-07 15:19 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-08 13:53 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-07 16:03 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-07 16:34 -0700
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-07 04:59 -0700
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 05:33 -0700
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-08-04 21:01 -0400
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-08-05 02:53 +0000
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-08-04 23:19 -0400
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2016-08-05 18:32 +1200
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-08-05 08:37 -0400
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-08-06 04:53 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-08-08 16:07 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-08-09 08:43 -0600
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-08-09 19:36 +0000
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 04:35 -0400
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Paul Colquhoun <newsposter@andor.dropbear.id.au> - 2016-08-05 14:04 +1000
    Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-06 21:23 -0500
  Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-23 02:24 -0700
    Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-08-07 00:24 -0700

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