Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines

From	Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net>
Newsgroups	rec.arts.sf.written
Subject	Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines
Date	2016-06-07 00:49 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<20160606b@crcomp.net> (permalink)
References	<robertaw-1E77DA.22232604062016@news.individual.net> <a92f9e59-c521-4f8d-a1c3-af6f723da848@googlegroups.com> <f35blbp76mko6glouv1jko1psukirj515a@reader80.eternal-september.org>

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Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 03:57:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>Terry Pratchett kind of explicitly gave up on keeping
>>a straight timeline in his Discworld novels, by
>>introducing an organisation of secret monks who were
>>responsible for stopping people in the story from
>>noticing the contradictions.  Or something like that.
>
> It's a world where magic (including time travel) is cheap and easy,
> and reality is fragile, so yeah, the Time Monks are needed.  They
> don't just keep people from noticing the contradictions, they actively
> patch the paradoxes.
>
>>And the big city setting went from 16th century
>>London-ish to 19th century in about one generation.
>>(The guy in charge is very determined.)
>
> Again, magic is common and there's a reality shortage.  There's also a
> surplus of narrativium, the element stories are made of.  So not only
> did Ankh-Morpork invent movies and railroads and newspapers and flash
> photography and rock 'n' roll in a single generation, but it has a
> grand 19th-century opera house just down the block from its equivalent
> of the Globe Theater, with neither one seen as anachronistic or
> obsolete.
>
> Not to mention the clacks, a semaphore system that's equivalent to the
> internet.

peaking of time travel paradoxes, it seems to me that the Grandfather
Paradox only applies to suicidal travelers. Off the top of my head,
there are at least four stories where travelers meet young version of
themselves: "By His Bootstraps" by RAH, "All You Zombies" by RAH,
"The Man Who Folded Himself" by Gerrold, and "The Time Travelers Wife"
by Niffenegger.

In these stories, travelers protect their younger selves out of a sense
of self-preservation. They also guide their younger selves.

These stories are also deterministic. Does the Grandfather Paradox
become moot in deterministic time travel?

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU

Thread

Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2016-06-04 22:23 -0700
  Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-05 06:47 -0700
    Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-06-05 10:01 -0700
      Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-06 21:19 -0500
  Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-06-05 08:37 -0700
  Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-05 10:57 -0700
    Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-05 18:33 +0000
      Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-05 11:43 -0700
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-05 20:40 +0000
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 17:22 -0400
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-06-09 01:29 +0000
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-09 07:54 -0700
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-09 12:35 -0400
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-09 12:45 -0700
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-06-10 21:46 -0600
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-11 09:35 -0700
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-11 14:06 -0400
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-11 23:32 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-11 23:49 -0400
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-12 04:34 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-13 22:32 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-14 14:09 -0400
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-06-09 09:17 -0700
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-09 18:35 +0000
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2016-06-09 21:31 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-10 05:16 +0000
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-10 02:37 -0500
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-08-04 18:41 -0400
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-09 11:56 -0700
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-06-09 18:55 -0700
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-06-09 21:04 +0100
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines leif.roar@dimnakorr.com - 2016-06-10 03:24 -0500
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-10 15:00 +0000
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-10 14:05 -0700
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Richard Botting <rjbotting03@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 09:59 -0700
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-23 17:57 -0700
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-25 00:16 +0000
      Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Brenda <brendawriter@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-11 22:01 -0400
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-06-11 21:13 -0600
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-06-12 02:04 -0400
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-12 07:18 +0000
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-12 06:57 -0400
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-06-12 06:24 +0000
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-12 10:44 +0300
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-06-12 05:48 -0700
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-06-12 13:28 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-06-12 14:53 -0600
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-12 20:46 -0500
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Jesper Lauridsen <rorschak@sorrystofanet.dk> - 2016-07-14 00:04 +0000
  Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-06 03:57 -0700
    Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-06-06 11:30 -0400
      Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-07 00:49 +0000
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-06-06 19:52 -0600
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-06 21:25 -0500
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-06 20:59 -0600
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 20:25 -0700
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-07 05:02 +0000
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-07 05:09 +0000
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-07 05:51 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-07 06:21 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2016-06-06 23:31 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-06-07 09:43 +0100
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Stephen Allcroft <stephenallcroft@lycos.co.uk> - 2016-06-07 02:22 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-07 14:30 -0400
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 12:05 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Howard C <howard.r.carter@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 07:55 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-08 02:23 -0700
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-07 23:02 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-10 01:39 +0000
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-07 05:04 -0700
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-06-07 09:58 -0700
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-07 20:54 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-07 14:50 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-07 21:58 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-07 15:19 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-08 13:53 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-07 16:03 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-07 16:34 -0700
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-07 04:59 -0700
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 05:33 -0700
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-08-04 21:01 -0400
          Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-08-05 02:53 +0000
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-08-04 23:19 -0400
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2016-08-05 18:32 +1200
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-08-05 08:37 -0400
              Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-08-06 04:53 -0700
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-08-08 16:07 +0000
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-08-09 08:43 -0600
                Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-08-09 19:36 +0000
            Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 04:35 -0400
        Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Paul Colquhoun <newsposter@andor.dropbear.id.au> - 2016-08-05 14:04 +1000
    Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-06 21:23 -0500
  Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-23 02:24 -0700
    Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-08-07 00:24 -0700

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