Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > linux.debian.user > #269952
| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | linux.debian.user |
| Subject | Re: about 10th new install of bullseye |
| Date | 2024-06-06 04:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <IMaA1-VGK-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink) |
| References | <ILzAt-w9k-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <ILStr-KQM-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <IM0hj-PsE-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <IM6G5-TnL-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| Organization | linux.* mail to news gateway |
On 6/5/24 17:25, Tom Dial wrote:
>
>
> On 6/5/24 08:58, gene heskett wrote:
>> On 6/5/24 02:05, Tom Dial wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/4/24 04:26, gene heskett wrote:
>>>> On 2/19/22 06:31, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>>>>> Hi Gene,
>>>>>
>>>>> If this was someone calling you from a TV station saying they had a TV
>>>>> transmitter that was varying in power output - you'd have a mental
>>>>> checklist.
>>>>> You'd get down there, perhaps schedule some sort of power down /
>>>>> reduced
>>>>> power operation and then you'd check - power supplies, feeder
>>>>> cables, hot
>>>>> spots on cables - whatever. Divide and conquer- working back to a
>>>>> baseline
>>>>> of known working conditions and eliminating causes.
>>>>>
>>>>> My suggestion to you of a reinstall is partly designed to get you
>>>>> out of this
>>>>> "X happens, I did Y, now I've got Z" - to get to a known initial
>>>>> state.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take out all the serial converters to UPS, lathe and so on.
>>>>> Wireless keyboard
>>>>> doesn't present as serial in the same way that brltty does - if it
>>>>> did, I'd
>>>>> have brltty with every install on this laptop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Copy off your home directory as you did before - maybe using tar.gz
>>>>> and preserving permissions. Start with the .iso that includes
>>>>> firmware - the unofficial one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Build back slowly - do an expert text mode install if you can. Then
>>>>> add your
>>>>> Trinity desktop - I don't think any of us can help you there, since
>>>>> we don't
>>>>> run trinity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check and you should find that brltty isn't installed at all. Then
>>>>> re-add thingsgradually until you have the working system you want.
>>>>> Document it - write down
>>>>> the steps you take / copy configuration files you change.
>>>>>
>>>>> That will also reveal logging / login slowdowns or whatever caused by
>>>>> individual devices as you add them back. Keep a list as you go.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the counsel of perfection: alternatively:
>>>>>
>>>>> apt rdepends brltty gives me:
>>>>>
>>>>> me@mymachine:~$ apt rdepends brltty
>>>>> brltty
>>>>> Reverse Depends:
>>>>> Suggests: speechd-el (>= 3.7.2)
>>>>> Depends: brltty-espeak (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>>>> Suggests: orca
>>>>> Depends: brltty-x11 (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>>>> Depends: brltty-speechd (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>>>> Depends: brltty-flite (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>>>>
>>>>> You could try apt-get remove (or equivalent) on each of those
>>>>> packages and
>>>>> see if that clears it. I _know_ this is frustrating as all get out
>>>>> for you
>>>>> but a clear approach, written down so that you can remember where
>>>>> you got
>>>>> to will be very helpful.
>>
>> Any attempt to remove cura or brltty, removes gnome leaving me I
>> assume with a text only system by the time gnome takes all its
>> dependency's with it. Thanks Tom.
>
> Have you actually tried uninstalling brltty only, as a separate action
> from all others?
>
> I have a number of gnome installations, unfortunately for this
> discussion all bookworm. None of them has brltty.
>
> I have a few installations of bullseye and an older stretch
> installation, but none with gnome installed. On all of them, though,
> "apt-rdepends -r gnome" fails to list brltty as a gnome dependency. And
> on the bookworm systems, simulated installation of gnome ("apt install
> -s gnome") shows brltty as a suggested package only and would not
> install it along with gnome; on the stretch system, gnome installation
> makes no reference at all to brltty.
>
While I have both with only the radio buttons for keyboard and rodent
plugged into usb at install time. I have only one wired keyboard and no
wired mice as I've had a lightning strike on the pole that serves this
house reach up and tap me by way of my fingers on the keyboard. Wasn't
that much of a tap, I've been tapped a lot harder that that, hard enough
to trigger a 6 month round of shingles and the burns were months
healing. And in this case did not damage the keyboard or computer, but I
did get the message. I've had many strikes on that pole since I built a
garage on the end of the house, which caused me to install a 200 amp
service and bring my grounding specs up to NEC. Zero problems since then
(2008)
> Is it possible you have apt settings that automatically pull in
> suggested packages, and that is interfering with attempts to remove
> brltty? I am not expert enough wrt apt and its relatives to know whether
> that even makes sense, and it seems a bit far fetched if maybe barely
> possible.
>
> Maybe if you post the output from "apt-rdepends -r brltty" and "apt
> purge --simulate brltty" it will be informative.
Neither of those utils are installed. Should they be?
>
> Regards,
> Tom Dial
>
>>>>>
>>>>> If all else fails, you can then share it with the list and say "I
>>>>> got to
>>>>> step X with no problems, then Y happened - help me out here" and we'll
>>>>> have some better idea. We all jib at you for being vague/not indluding
>>>>> details but otherwise it is all just guesswork for the usual folk that
>>>>> hang out here.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the very best, as ever,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andy Cater
>>>>>
>>>> How much longer till trixie is officially out?? What you are
>>>> proposing sounds like several days work, and i have other irons in
>>>> the fire. This release has been such a disaster for me because the
>>>> install insists on installing and configuring orca and brltty w/o
>>>> asking. I've done 40 some installs now, trying to stop it from
>>>> wasting about a second while its yelling every keystroke at me
>>>> because it thinks I'm blind. I finally have orca disabled and the
>>>> computer is useful. The delays are a pain in the a$$ but i can do
>>>> work now. It is not useful when orca is using 90% of a 6 core I5
>>>> yelling at me loud enough to announce and pronounce every keystroke
>>>> or mouse motion/click loud enough to wake the neighbors. The first
>>>> 23 installs never asked me if I wanted that crap. And if you nuked
>>>> the orca executable it would not reboot but hung forever waiting for
>>>> orca to start. I have it usable, the installer AFAIAC is broken and
>>>> I don't want to have to go through all that again. Until the
>>>> installer ASKS me if I want it because it thinks I am blind, I have
>>>> only one nerve left and and the suggestion that I do yet another
>>>> install, is standing on it. Trying to remove it now, it insists on
>>>> removing gnome and every dependency. I just checked again with
>>>> synaptic, removing either orca or brltty still wants to destroy the
>>>> system, Yet all I get when I fuss about the broken installer is
>>>> "won't fix, not broken'.
>>>>
>>> Hi Gene,
>>>
>>> I, too, am not in need of the services that brltty or orca provide,
>>> and have noticed them hanging about from time to time, although I
>>> have not encountered any difficulties like you describe.
>>>
>>> On a bullseye system, apt-rdepends -r brltty informs me:
>>>
>>> # apt-rdepends -r brltty
>>> Reading package lists... Done
>>> Building dependency tree... Done
>>> Reading state information... Done
>>> brltty
>>> Reverse Depends: brltty-espeak (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>> Reverse Depends: brltty-flite (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>> Reverse Depends: brltty-speechd (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>> Reverse Depends: brltty-x11 (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>> brltty-espeak
>>> brltty-flite
>>> brltty-speechd
>>> brltty-x11
>>>
>>> If I understand apt-rdepends correctly, you should be able to
>>> remove/purge brltty ("apt purge brltty") without removing any
>>> installed packages other than the four listed above.
>>>
>>> apt-rdepends -r orca tells me:
>>>
>>> # apt-rdepends -r orca
>>> Reading package lists... Done
>>> Building dependency tree... Done
>>> Reading state information... Done
>>> orca
>>> Reverse Depends: gnome (>= 1:3.38+3)
>>> Reverse Depends: gnome-orca (3.38.2-2)
>>> Reverse Depends: orca-sops (1.0.2-2)
>>> gnome
>>> gnome-orca
>>> orca-sops
>>>
>>> So removing orca would also take gnome, and that probably is
>>> unacceptable to you. Accordingly, you need to tame orca to find the
>>> process that causes it to run and persuade it not to do that.
>>>
>>> I found, on a bookworm install (I have no bullseye with gnome and
>>> orca), that running orca -s from a terminal will bring up a settings
>>> panel with a check box for "Enable speech" under the "Speech" tab.
>>> Unchecking that box and selecting the "Apply" button will silence
>>> Orca. I think that leaves some of its subtasks running, as children
>>> of the systemd --user task; I am far from expert here. They do not
>>> seem to use significant resources, however.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, you can find orca's process, for instance, with "ps
>>> -ef | grep orca", and kill it. The -HUP signal is enough. Or you can
>>> kill its parent process (third column in the ps -ef output) if it is
>>> not a necessary one, or maybe teach it how to not start orca in the
>>> first place,
>>>
>>> I hope this is useful. Things like this can be very annoying.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tom Dial
Thank you Tom
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Back to linux.debian.user | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-04 12:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-06-04 20:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-06-05 04:50 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-06-05 08:40 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-06-05 12:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-05 17:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-05 17:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-05 17:50 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-05 18:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2024-06-06 11:50 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-06-05 23:50 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-06 04:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-06-07 00:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-07 06:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-07 07:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-07 13:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-07 14:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-07 14:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-07 13:40 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-07 23:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-06-08 00:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-08 01:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-06-08 03:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-08 07:50 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-06-08 09:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-08 21:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-06-09 00:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-09 08:10 +0200
Snaps and Co [was: about 10th new install of bullseye] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-09 07:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-06-09 01:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-09 08:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-06-09 14:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-09 15:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-09 16:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-06-09 22:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye BUT its not Bullseye, its bookworm! gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-05 17:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bookworm! Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-06-06 00:50 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bookworm! gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-06 04:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bookworm! Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-06-06 04:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye BUT its not Bullseye, its bookworm! David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-06-06 03:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-06-05 19:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-05 23:10 +0200
csiph-web